Page a Boy with Cancer

Beleth

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Beleth
Joined
Dec 10, 2002
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Summary: A toll-free number has been set up for people to page a 10-year-old boy with cancer so he knows you have prayed for him.

Joe William Sheffield's Story

Now, while I'm all for easing the suffering of children, this just seems like the wrong way to do it.

First off, toll-free numbers ain't cheap, and maybe the money could be better used in a different way.

Second, I'd like to be able to send him a different message. Perhaps "344" for "Get well soon", "823" for "Thinking of you", or "6246" for "Listen to your doctor/mother/father" would be a more appropriate message.

But what's holding me back is the cost to someone for the call, and the high probablility that the message I really want to send, the 6246 one, will not get interpreted the right way.

And of course Barbara Mikkelson's very-out-of-character "further prayers are both desired and needed because cancer is a treacherous disease" statement gives me pause. Prayers may be desired but they are hardly needed. More treatment is the thing that is needed.

Poor family... William probably has little concept of what he's going through, but this must be torture for his parents.
 
Beleth said:
maybe the money could be better used in a different way.
Click to expand...

Hi Beleth, you could be right about this, but I would argue that it's really not your place to say.

This family sounds like they are doing everything medically appropriate for their child. If they are of faith and this program makes them and their child feel a little better and supported, then so be it.

It seems a bit odd to me that you feel the need to send your *own* message to this child like "listen to your doctor", when there is no reason to believe that he or his family is doing otherwise. Sounds like you just have a problem with the prayer request and that you need to push your beliefs on them. That, in my opinion, is no better than people of faith pushing their beliefs on others.

I'm glad you posted this, however, because I'm going to send the page. I don't have a big belief in the power of prayer, but it will send the message that someone else is thinking of this child and his family during a rough time. If they see it as a prayer, fine with me.
 
"And every time the bell on a Christmas tree rings, an angel gets his wings."

and

"Clap, children!Clap your hands if you believe in fairies."

come to mind.

Anyway, I thought that Christians believed that one prayer from a believer was every bit as important to God as another. When did it become a popularity contest?

Will a prayer to Odin count as a negative?

Anyway, I smell a scam.

:(
 
To clarify, before I get accused of gross insensitivity:

The Baptist Church listed re the cancer boy might get donations. We all know people will send donations (even anonymous donations) to all kinds of charlatans. I think that genuine philanthropic donations that were going to ensure the kid gets the best possible medical treatment, or even helps him to achieve some better quality of life would be much more beneficial. It's sad that folk use innocent sick kids to justify and promote their faith, and for group reinforcement. Does this system of solicited, specific prayer put sick kids who don't believe in Christ (and even those who are not Baptists) at a disadvantage? If there is no advantage/disadvantage, what is the point? Is the kid being told that God made him sick because of some sin or guilt on his part? I dearly hope not.

I do hope he gets well. But there are millions of kids out there suffering, all over the world. There would be a lot more without scientific advances in medicine -- advances that have often been opposed (and still are) by some religionists. I doubt if this is being done simply to help the kid. The "prayer really works" agenda is evident here. 'Miracle' or 'no miracle', it will be justified as a "success".:(
 
I liked the family and school friends all shaving their heads in support of the kid, that's cool.

The pager idea seems nice, the local children's cancer ward is not as popular visiting place as it could be.

As long as the pager is not a substitute for human contact I guess it sounds ok. Are all the kids in cancer treatment getting pagers or just a few?
 
Re: Re: Page a Boy with Cancer

RC said:
It seems a bit odd to me that you feel the need to send your *own* message to this child like "listen to your doctor", when there is no reason to believe that he or his family is doing otherwise. Sounds like you just have a problem with the prayer request and that you need to push your beliefs on them.
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It seems a bit odd to me how anyone could interpret a belief-free message - a message that contains nothing but reasonable advice - as a message that is "pushing a belief."

I'm glad you posted this, however, because I'm going to send the page. I don't have a big belief in the power of prayer, but it will send the message that someone else is thinking of this child and his family during a rough time. If they see it as a prayer, fine with me.
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Do what you feel is right. I personally want to be able to send a message which conveys my sympathy without implying that I am doing, or believing, something I am not. But I don't know how to do that in this case.


Kopji -
From that church's Web page, it sounds like they have about 8 pagers to distribute among the congregation.
 
"Now, while I'm all for easing the suffering of children, this just seems like the wrong way to do it."

I agree, Beleth, however, I've read as much as I can find on the efficacy of prayer, from the reputable scientific journals ("Reader's Digest") to Randi to just about everything I can reasonably find. Prayer as a healing device is inconclusive. However, if it makes the patient more comfortable, I don't think it hurts. It's much better to pray over someone than try a psychic surgeon, right? I prayed to kick alcohol, and I did, though I firmly believe *I* did it myself, not the power of prayer or the intercession of a deity. In short, who knows?

Nigel
 
Nigel said:
"Now, while I'm all for easing the suffering of children, this just seems like the wrong way to do it."

I agree, Beleth, however, I've read as much as I can find on the efficacy of prayer, from the reputable scientific journals ("Reader's Digest") to Randi to just about everything I can reasonably find. Prayer as a healing device is inconclusive. However, if it makes the patient more comfortable, I don't think it hurts. It's much better to pray over someone than try a psychic surgeon, right? I prayed to kick alcohol, and I did, though I firmly believe *I* did it myself, not the power of prayer or the intercession of a deity. In short, who knows?

Nigel
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I see where you and the others are coming from. But I'm still not sure about this. And I've witnessed some horrible deaths from cancer, including my mother and sister.

"First, do no harm."

I can't see how any harm might come to the child under these extreme circumstances. This is why I prevaricate.

However, I still think this kid is a pawn in someone else's game.

How big a step is it from 'prayer really works' to 'all you need to get better is prayer'?

I need more views to decide about this. Is there harm being done here?
 
I have some brief personal experience in this area, whether or not it applies widely I am not qualified to say. Maybe to stand with someone who may die from their illness is too personal and unique to provide broad 'pat' answers.

The pager idea seems helpful and not manipulative.

1: There was an effort for this to not just be an isolated 'church advertisement', and shows a long term commitment to the children. This is not like handing out Christmas music CD's, where the children do not hear from the church except once a year. This seems like a continued effort.

2: There is a lot of fear to overcome. A pager could work as a supplement or bridge to help overcome some a natural fear people have to being with cancer patients. It should not be a substitute for visits.

3: What if everyone did it? Always a good question to ask. I have no problem there... if anything the Christian mom sitting by her child in the hospital would hear the Muslim's pager going off, or for that matter, an atheist's pager going off (on vibrate? ;) ).
People might be surprised to find a commonality, a more complex world.

3.5 Prayer can be thought of as a kind of meditation without the supernatural trappings.

4: If I were to draw a "don't do it line" somewhere, it would be with that little boy with cancer who shows up on Larry King every once in a while; sort of a running example that even terminally ill should have faith, etc. etc. I turn away and grieve for such.
When faith becomes a public condemnation of the many people who 'lose faith' during the long process of grief it makes it that much harder. Perhaps the imagery of pounding nails into an already suffering person's hands needs to be understood in a wider context. But the pager is not that.

To be with someone dying or with serious illness has an 'is-ness' present tense to it. Sometimes people find a way through with faith, and sometimes they do not.

Whatever, it seems better to know there are people thinking about you, than to go alone.
 
"I've witnessed some horrible deaths from cancer, including my mother and sister." The Mighty Thor

My father died six years ago (April 8th - my wife's birthday) of cancer. I saw him a week before he died. He was in great pain (I'll spare other details), but I prayed he die as peacefully as possible (I'm an agnostic, by the way), so if nothing else, praying made me feel better. I certainly can't say it helped, or hurt. Same with my mother in law. She died of complications of diabetes. I prayed she go quickly and painlessly then, too. Did it hurt? Did it help?

Then again, I'm not the first to say, "There are no atheists in foxholes."

Nigel
 
Posted by Kopji

If I were to draw a "don't do it line" somewhere, it would be with that little boy with cancer who shows up on Larry King every once in a while; sort of a running example that even terminally ill should have faith, etc. etc.
Click to expand...
Um...You're thinking of Matty Stepanek. He has muscular dystrophy, not cancer. Larry King has him on because (1) he is a 13 year old who has written books of poetry that are on the NY Times best seller list; (2) he's a brilliant child and its fascinating and inspiring to many people to hear how he views life, his illness, his efforts to make this a more peaceful world; and (3) Larry genuinely likes him and likes to help give him a platform for his ideas.

(And I've seen others characterize his LKL appearances as you have, Kopji, but I strongly disagree. Unlike many people living with terminal illness, Matty has hope and a purpose (and is quite realistic about the medical prognosis, too, having watched several siblings die from it already.)

He's a child who is a natural teacher, and television (and LKL) give him that opportunity and help him lead a meaningful life even while fighting a terrible disease. I don't find it the least bit exploitative--plus, imo, it's good to see all kinds of people on television, including people with illnesses, with trachs, etc. Matty Stepanek is an interesting person with worthwhile things to talk about).

re: topic of the thread. It is very difficult to keep people's hopes up when they're fighting a terminal illness and that might be even more true for children. If the pager helps this boy by reminding him that people care, then I don't see anything wrong with it.
 
Clancie
Thank's for the name & info. I suppose people can read and decide for themselves:

A transcript is here:
Link

I dunno, are the real hospital children's terminal illness wards full of poetry writing-world peace promoting-hopeful-prayerful-spunky-children?

Larry seems to promote a mythical "reality" I just don't see from where I stand. -shrug-

But on topic...
The use of pagers recognizes a simple need for comfort. I hope someone is assigned to replace the batteries once in a while.
 
Thor,

Will a prayer to Odin count as a negative?
Click to expand...
Only if he's been drinking again....

----------------------------------------------------------
Clancie,

If the pager helps this boy by reminding him that people care, then I don't see anything wrong with it.
Click to expand...
I can agree with this from the boy's perspective, but it really would take VERY little effort on the part of the organisers to implement a 'non-denominational/belief-neutral' pager system. I'm deeply suspicious of the interplay of motives behind this.
 
Two questions:

1) Do pagers work off the same supposedly-dodgy waves as mobile phones?

2) If God knows everything, whats the point of praying?
 
Nigel said:
Then again, I'm not the first to say, "There are no atheists in foxholes."

Nigel
Click to expand...

True, you're not the first. But you're as wrong as any who have ever said it. :)
 
Beleth said:
Summary: A toll-free number has been set up for people to page a 10-year-old boy with cancer so he knows you have prayed for him.

Joe William Sheffield's Story

Now, while I'm all for easing the suffering of children, this just seems like the wrong way to do it. Prayers may be desired but they are hardly needed. More treatment is the thing that is needed.

Poor family... William probably has little concept of what he's going through, but this must be torture for his parents.
Click to expand...

Do you really think that all they are doing for him is praying? What is wrong with him knowing that people are praying for him? This is certainly not dangerous.

I'm a skeptic, but comments like this are what makes believers hate us so much.

There is such a thing as being over the top.

I myself put my priorities in order when I am questioning the beliefs of others.

If a prayer will help this young boy feel loved and supported, then I am all for it. He is too young to be questioning whether or not God exists or if prayer will help him. But he does know that every time that beeper goes off that someone is thinking of him.
 
Re: Re: Page a Boy with Cancer

RC said:


I'm glad you posted this, however, because I'm going to send the page. I don't have a big belief in the power of prayer, but it will send the message that someone else is thinking of this child and his family during a rough time. If they see it as a prayer, fine with me.
Click to expand...

I myself sent a page to him a few days ago when I saw this on Snopes. I think it is a wonderful idea, and I think it should be done more with terminally ill children.
 
The Mighty Thor said:
To clarify, before I get accused of gross insensitivity:

The Baptist Church listed re the cancer boy might get donations. We all know people will send donations (even anonymous donations) to all kinds of charlatans. I think that genuine philanthropic donations that were going to ensure the kid gets the best possible medical treatment, or even helps him to achieve some better quality of life would be much more beneficial. It's sad that folk use innocent sick kids to justify and promote their faith, and for group reinforcement. Does this system of solicited, specific prayer put sick kids who don't believe in Christ (and even those who are not Baptists) at a disadvantage? If there is no advantage/disadvantage, what is the point? Is the kid being told that God made him sick because of some sin or guilt on his part? I dearly hope not.

I do hope he gets well. But there are millions of kids out there suffering, all over the world. There would be a lot more without scientific advances in medicine -- advances that have often been opposed (and still are) by some religionists. I doubt if this is being done simply to help the kid. The "prayer really works" agenda is evident here. 'Miracle' or 'no miracle', it will be justified as a "success".:(
Click to expand...

I am so sick of this attitude. When will you all realize that something as simple as this is NOT pushing faith onto people. It is not going to hurt anyone.

I'm so tired of all these self-righteous attitudes among skeptics.
 
Nigel said:
"Now, while I'm all for easing the suffering of children, this just seems like the wrong way to do it."

I agree, Beleth, however, I've read as much as I can find on the efficacy of prayer, from the reputable scientific journals ("Reader's Digest") to Randi to just about everything I can reasonably find. Prayer as a healing device is inconclusive. However, if it makes the patient more comfortable, I don't think it hurts. It's much better to pray over someone than try a psychic surgeon, right? I prayed to kick alcohol, and I did, though I firmly believe *I* did it myself, not the power of prayer or the intercession of a deity. In short, who knows?

Nigel
Click to expand...

Of course it doesn't hurt. I think a lot of people here are missing the big picture. THIS KID GETS PAGES FROM PEOPLE WHO CARE.

THAT is what is important, not whether or not you think prayer works or Christianity is evil or whatever.

Think of the big picture. and what matters.
 
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