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Our Useless Universe

Myriad

The Clarity Is Devastating
Joined
Nov 17, 2006
Messages
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There are approximately 300 billion stars in our own galaxy. A handful of these might turn out to be within range of heroic future human efforts to reach them, via centuries-long one-way colony ship voyages. However, any ongoing process of leaping from star to star across our galaxy appears unlikely to ever be both worthwhile and feasible, unless the voyages are primarily undertaken by, and for, AI's. Furthermore, the same technologies that would be needed to make such voyages possible would also make arbitrarily large habitats within our own solar system possible too, at enormously less cost per person.

But let's say that contrary to all reasonable expectations, humanity manages to eventually explore and occupy a vast empire of a million star systems. That still leaves 299,999 million stars in our galaxy that will never be visited by humans and thus, as far as I and the rest of my species for the rest of time are concerned, are useless. That's a 99.7% uselessness rate, and as we look farther out, that figure only goes up from there.

The observable universe contains over 80 billion other galaxies. All of those are completely inaccessible -- as far as present day science can determine, permanently so. Forget generation ships, forget hibernation, even the AI's would evaporate in the time it would take to travel between galaxies by means of any known energy source. Even communication with another galaxy is impossible on any humanly comprehensible time scale. So, we can confidently characterize another 50 sextillion stars as so useless that they'd make tits on a bull seem like 29-accessory Swiss Army Knives by comparison.

According to the current prevailing inflationary cosmology mode, the entire universe may be 23 orders of magnitude larger still. That amounts to at least another 5 million billion billion sextillion stars that, being permanently outside our light cone, reach a degree of uselessness that is almost beyond conception.

And all those useless stars, orbited by countless useless planets, comets, and asteroids, occupy (to a trivially tiny extent barely deserving of the word) an immensely vast volume of even more useless empty space. Of course, not all empty space is useless. A minute fraction of it is good for some things like storing your Oort cloud in and keeping your planet far enough away from your star for comfort. But the total amounts of it in our universe are absurdly excessive. Which means that almost all of it -- the excepted fraction being almost too small to imagine -- is useless.

Thus we must conclude that pretty much the entire universe is profoundly useless. Indeed, there is probably no way for the human mind to truly grasp the extent of its uselessness. While cosmologists might someday be able calculate the uselessness of the universe (formally defined as the integral over all of space and time of the reciprocal of usefulness), the resulting figure will be so far outside our human experience of ordinary uselessness (which evolved to help us survive in a familiar world of ice sculptures, conspiracy theories, Chia Pets, Infomercials, Left Behind novels, and weekly staff meetings) as to be incomprehensible.

There are theories in cosmology and physics (and others in religion and philosophy) that attempt to explain various properties of the universe such as its size, its age, its curvature, and so forth. But is there any theory that can explain why it is so useless?

Respectfully,
Myriad
 
But let's say that contrary to all reasonable expectations, humanity manages to eventually explore and occupy a vast empire of a million star systems. That still leaves 299,999 million stars in our galaxy that will never be visited by humans and thus, as far as I and the rest of my species for the rest of time are concerned, are useless. That's a 99.7% uselessness rate, and as we look farther out, that figure only goes up from there.

Ah, but who knows how many other species of life might find these same areas "useful" for life?
 
But is there any theory that can explain why it is so useless?

Respectfully,
Myriad

See your problem is you are approaching this from a human-centric point of view. What if it us that is irrelevant and useless, and the universe is humming along doing its own thing.......we just dont get it
 
99.7% useless is being extremely generous.


Well, that's only looking at our own galaxy, and only if we did indeed reach a million stars, and only if I make a silly calculation error and write 99.7% when it should have been 99.9997%.

To achieve a uselessness rate as low as 99.7% we'd have to reach a billion stars.

Respectfully,
Myriad
 
As tongue-in-cheek as this thread is, I am surprised by how many people really do find it so necessary for everything to have some intended purpose. I realise it arises from brains that evolved to be essentially teleological, but for me, it's also kind of sad.

I enjoy my existentialism. I like the fact things just are. Adding a purpose just complicates things.

Athon
 
There are approximately 300 billion stars in our own galaxy. A handful of these might turn out to be within range of heroic future human efforts to reach them, via centuries-long one-way colony ship voyages. However, any ongoing process of leaping from star to star across our galaxy appears unlikely to ever be both worthwhile and feasible, unless the voyages are primarily undertaken by, and for, AI's. Furthermore, the same technologies that would be needed to make such voyages possible would also make arbitrarily large habitats within our own solar system possible too, at enormously less cost per person.

But let's say that contrary to all reasonable expectations, humanity manages to eventually explore and occupy a vast empire of a million star systems. That still leaves 299,999 million stars in our galaxy that will never be visited by humans and thus, as far as I and the rest of my species for the rest of time are concerned, are useless. That's a 99.7% uselessness rate, and as we look farther out, that figure only goes up from there.

The observable universe contains over 80 billion other galaxies. All of those are completely inaccessible -- as far as present day science can determine, permanently so. Forget generation ships, forget hibernation, even the AI's would evaporate in the time it would take to travel between galaxies by means of any known energy source. Even communication with another galaxy is impossible on any humanly comprehensible time scale. So, we can confidently characterize another 50 sextillion stars as so useless that they'd make tits on a bull seem like 29-accessory Swiss Army Knives by comparison.

According to the current prevailing inflationary cosmology mode, the entire universe may be 23 orders of magnitude larger still. That amounts to at least another 5 million billion billion sextillion stars that, being permanently outside our light cone, reach a degree of uselessness that is almost beyond conception.

And all those useless stars, orbited by countless useless planets, comets, and asteroids, occupy (to a trivially tiny extent barely deserving of the word) an immensely vast volume of even more useless empty space. Of course, not all empty space is useless. A minute fraction of it is good for some things like storing your Oort cloud in and keeping your planet far enough away from your star for comfort. But the total amounts of it in our universe are absurdly excessive. Which means that almost all of it -- the excepted fraction being almost too small to imagine -- is useless.

Thus we must conclude that pretty much the entire universe is profoundly useless. Indeed, there is probably no way for the human mind to truly grasp the extent of its uselessness. While cosmologists might someday be able calculate the uselessness of the universe (formally defined as the integral over all of space and time of the reciprocal of usefulness), the resulting figure will be so far outside our human experience of ordinary uselessness (which evolved to help us survive in a familiar world of ice sculptures, conspiracy theories, Chia Pets, Infomercials, Left Behind novels, and weekly staff meetings) as to be incomprehensible.

There are theories in cosmology and physics (and others in religion and philosophy) that attempt to explain various properties of the universe such as its size, its age, its curvature, and so forth. But is there any theory that can explain why it is so useless?

Respectfully,
Myriad

Excellent question.
Yes, our theory's which we use to come up with the "useless conclusion" are useless;)
 
Wow, Myrid, that's a perspective that makes me weep. It's so depressing to contemplate; granted we are probably alone here in our tiny corner of The Milky Way, but, I'd like to think that there are others out there, miserable, and isolated, searching and hoping. Drake's Equation, with-standing, maybe all the more reason to celebrate our unique position in this vacuum.
Turn this race of Human Kind around. "We're here, we're self-aware, and we may be all alone, but we are the Human race of a place that we call Earth."
We need to abandon our petty superstitions that hold us back, embrace the rest of the Infinite, and let our natural propensity for curiosity lead us.
Let us "seek out new life, and new civilizations", and if we don't find them, let us boldly go where no other life-form has gone before!
 
Meh.
What proportion of space which makes up 'stuff' (molecules, atoms, sub-atomic particles etc..) actually contains anything? 0.00...... something % ?
Does that render 'stuff' (matter) useless?
Does that make the space between any 'stuff' useless?
If there was no space between the stuff the stuff couldn't work properly.

Would matter be more useful if it were much more dense?
Even church roofers find oxygen and water more useful than lead, for the most part.

What proportion of space is taken up by physical laws? My guess would be 0%
Does that make physical laws useless?

I've never understood this view that spatial proportions have anything at all to do with utility, value, meaning and the like.

A 600 pound guy is generally rather less than four times more useful around the house than a 150 pound guy. (For the pedants, yes they are of the same density in this example)
 
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Meh.
What proportion of space which makes up 'stuff' (molecules, atoms, sub-atomic particles etc..) actually contains anything? 0.00...... something % ?
Does that render 'stuff' (matter) useless?
Does that make the space between any 'stuff' useless?
If there was no space between the stuff the stuff couldn't work properly.

Would matter be more useful if it were much more dense?
Even church roofers find oxygen and water more useful than lead, for the most part.

What proportion of space is taken up by physical laws? My guess would be 0%
Does that make physical laws useless?

I've never understood this view that spatial proportions have anything at all to do with utility, value, meaning and the like.

A 600 pound guy is generally rather less than four times more useful around the house than a 150 pound guy. (For the pedants, yes they are of the same density in this example)

My point exactly.

Utility/purpose/value/meaning are next to useless:D predicates within the scientific method.
In fact the history of science shows 100's of years were wasted in interpreting anatomical features of animals, because of the emphasis on utility. Many anatomical features simply do not serve any purpose as they are remnants of evolutionary pasts.

The question of the OP about the utility of the universe is the same as piggy's "scientific question" about utility/purpose/value/meaning of beauty.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=149607

Its not something that the scientific method deals with.... so stop asking these questions in the science forum.
 
so...

If the universe is pointless, what does that make internet forums?
 
Interresting OP, but I prefer to belive that the barrier of speed of light will some day be broken and the galaxy colonised.

And you can´t stop me.:D
 

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