• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Organising an FAQ

qarnos

Cold-hearted skeptic
Joined
Apr 25, 2004
Messages
2,084
Someone mentioned this in a thread which I have since lost, but is anyone interested in trying to pull something together?

I can't speak for others, but I think it would be a great project for those "popcorn eaters" amongst us (of who I am one!) and would help take the strain off the mainstays of the forum (gravy, mackey, et al) in dealing with woobies.

I would be more than happy to put my hand up to co-ordinate the project. It is mainly a matter of sifting through the forums to find the relevant data. There is a wealth of good information in here which is buried in the noise.

So, who is interested?
 
I suspect he means a "frequently debunked arguments" resource.

Yeah, sorry Zep, I should have been more specific.

Mojo is right - an FAQ for the debunking of 9/11 CTs.
 
How comprehensive are we talking? I'm just thinking, MarkyX has already done one for the more common CT theories...

Are we talking an incredibly detailed one that really goes down to the nitty gritty?

-Gumboot
 
How comprehensive are we talking? I'm just thinking, MarkyX has already done one for the more common CT theories...

Are we talking an incredibly detailed one that really goes down to the nitty gritty?

-Gumboot

I was thinking of starting of broad and narrowing it down over time.

A lot of the stuff could be taken straight from MarkyX's stuff and Gravy's LC guide to begin with, and we can take it from there, adding stuff from the forum as we go.
 
But who would read it, besides us? Well, maybe the fence sitters. But the nutters? Nope. Anyway, I like the idea.

Maybe answering the questions at some different levels? Maybe first a general (laymans) answer, with more and more information behind some links? (Like quotes, calculations and what have you)
 
But who would read it, besides us? Well, maybe the fence sitters. But the nutters? Nope. Anyway, I like the idea.

Maybe answering the questions at some different levels? Maybe first a general (laymans) answer, with more and more information behind some links? (Like quotes, calculations and what have you)

Well, the idea is that when someone claims X we can say, goto the faq, section 3 point 9 or something like that.

I know that the woobies won't read it but the lurkers might.

If we keep it fully sourced there can be no complaints (yeah, right!).

I am just hoping to be able to save the major debunkers the trouble of having to repeat the same stuff over and over.

I feel bad because people like Gravy spend so much time and effort combating this idiocy whilst people like myself eat popcorn and post quick one-liners. I am not a master-debunker and can't recite the NIST report off the top of my head, so this is my way of giving people such as myself a way of contributing to the cause.
 
I suspect he means a "frequently debunked arguments" resource.

Something akin to the TalkOrigins Index to Creationist Claims for 9/11 conspiracy theories would be extremely useful, but a hell of a lot of work to put together.
 
Would this be any different than sites like 9/11 Myths?
Even Mike from 911myths.com has said that his site "isn't organised at all. :)"
SOURCE: http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2038111

I had recommended a FAQ that can be cited (chapter and verse?) to spare everyone repeating themselves. I'm glad that Qarnos has started a new thread about this, since the last one was hijacked.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2037902
 
Good idea. and the faq can use "video" sites too and articles to reference and link to.
 
Well, the idea is that when someone claims X we can say, goto the faq, section 3 point 9 or something like that.
Like someone might point to Creationist Claim CB144?

That talk origins archive has been tremendously helpful in fighting creationists. Since CTs steal pages from the creationist playbook, it seems like a good idea to fight back using the same strategies effective against creationists.
 
Like someone might point to Creationist Claim CB144?
Something like that, yes.

Let me see if I can put together an example of a structure. :eek:

This is just a sketch to give folks an idea. It's based on 911myths.com. Each section would then have more-detailed subsections, as with the Anarchist FAQ or the Index to Creationist Claims.

Section A: Events Prior to 9/11/01
Section B: Osama bin Laden and Al Qaeda


Section C: The Hijackers (Let's expand on this, as an example.)
C1: Hijacker Identities
C.1.100: Who were the hijackers? (Reserve a whole "century" for these detailed questions, like the Index to Creationist Claims does.)
C.1.101: But didn't Mohammed Atta spell his name with a "Q"? (Really nitty-gritty details get their own numbers.)

C.1.200: Did those named by the FBI really carry out the attacks?
C.1.300: The FBI have even admitted they don’t know who many of the hijackers were
C.1.4: The security camera footage claiming to show Hani Hanjour at Dulles airport on 9/11 actually shows someone else altogether
C.1.5: Many of those named as hijackers are still alive
C.1.6: How could the FBI have DNA samples of the alleged hijackers before 9-11?
C.1.7: The alleged hijackers don’t appear on the passenger manifests

C2: Hijacker Activities
C.2.1: The hijackers reportedly had girlfriends, drank alcohol, went clubbing, not the acts of fundamentalists
C.2.2: Mohammed Atta was a regular visitor to Jack Abramoffs casinos

C3: Hijacker Training
C.3.1: How could such sophisticated attacks have been carried out by a bunch of flight school dropouts?
C.3.2: Some of the hijackers were trained to fly by the US Government
C.3.3: A former German Defence Minister has confirmed the existence of Home Run, a remote control system present in all 757’s and 767’s
C.3.4: The planes were flown to their targets by remote control, not hijackers

C4: Hijacker Ties to Al Qaeda
C.4.1: Is there any evidence that these guys were working for Al Qaeda?

C5: The Moussaoui Case
C.5.1: Does anybody have an example of a question or conspiracist claim for here?

C6: Other Questions
C.6.1: There’s no chance that one of the hijackers passports could be recovered from the WTC rubble

C+: Additional Resources and links (Each section should have one of these.)

Section D: Warnings and Foreknowledge
Section E: The U.S. Military on 9/11/01
Section F: The Twin Towers
Section G: World Trade Center 7
Section H: The Pentagon
Section I: Flight 93
Section J: Investigations
(about the 9/11 Commission, NIST, FEMA, etc.)
Section K: Consequences (about Afghanistan, Iraq, poisonous air, etcetera)
Section L: Other 9/11 Claims (This could also include information about the 9/11 CTers in general and in particular. But it should be fact, not speculation!)

Appendix 1: Additional Material (This would be for existing debunking documents, like Gravy's and MarkyX's work.)
Appendix 2: Current Investigations and FOIA Requests (like what 911myths has now)
Appendix 3: 9/11 Updates (like what 911myths has now; also a repository for new information that needs to be incorporated into the main body of the FAQ)

This is just a sketch, for an example. Change it as needed. I have hybridized two different FAQ systems. I like the block-numbering used by the Index to Creationist Claims; it's kind of like the Library of Congress classification system.

And remember, each entry should be adequately sourced to both print and electronic resources. (Some web resources will disappear over time!) Use the power of hypertext; it is your friend.

What do you all think?
 
Ugh, the formatting is wrong. The Sections should be left-justified, and each level of detail within should be indented. That would make it easier to read.

C.1.101 should be indented just to the right of C.1.100.
 
For ease of navigation,

I notice most of these things are structured based on CT topics. It might be easier to classify them by componants of the attack...

For example I often notice AA11 and UA175 are not given sections, but AA77 and UA93 are.

I would think it a good idea to divide the "elements" involved more clearly:

AA11
UA175
AA77
UA93

WTC1
WTC2
Pentagon
Shankesville
WTC7

Sort of thing.

Otherwise I could see the section "The Twin Towers" being enormous (it has to cover the flights themselves, phone calls etc, impact, design of the towers, survivors, firefighters, people trapped in towers, NIST, FEMA, and so on...)

Or alternatively, perhaps a chronologically inspired FAQ?

In which case, I guess, you'd have, for example, a WTC1 entry for categories before 9/11 (construction, insurance, power-downs, 93 bombing, security coming off, etc), pre-attack (occupancy on the day, etc - small section!) the attacks themselves (impact, people trapped, survivors, firemen, collapse, NIST, etc, etc)

Some sort of cross-referencing might be in order for topics that cross over?

-Gumboot
 
It might be easier to classify them by componants of the attack...

For example I often notice AA11 and UA175 are not given sections, but AA77 and UA93 are.

Otherwise I could see the section "The Twin Towers" being enormous
You're right.

How about this?:
Section F: American Airlines Flight 11 and WTC1
Section G:
United Airlines Flight 175 and WTC2
Section H: American Airlines Flight 77 and the Pentagon
Section I: United Airlines Flight 93
Section J: World Trade Center 7
...with adjustments for the letter sequence that follows.

Or should the each plane have a section and each hit target have a section?

Or alternatively, perhaps a chronologically inspired FAQ?
My proposal is roughly chronological. Sections A-E lead up to the attack. Seciotns F-I are about the attack itself. And Sections J and K are what followed.

Within each section, it could certainly be chronological, as you suggest.

In light of this, I would clarify my idea for "Section A: Events Prior to 9/11/01" to cover pre-attack events. Examples include Operation Northwoods and "Rebuilding America's Defenses". However, I would not put Oklahoma City conspiracy theories there, since it doesn't seem to be used much in a 9/11 context. Oh, but now I'm not sure what is the best way.

I think a lot of these structural and order questions depend on whether this FAQ should be an evidence-based narrative (our story) or a debunking response (to their stories). That will affect the way it is presented.
 
Last edited:
I think it is a great idea. For me personally, the fencesitters/lurkers are who I do this for, so an FAQ for them would make it much easier.

To be done properly though, would be a huge undertaking.

TAM
 
We could also add links to threads in which the particular claim/question was adressed.

Edit: And the person(s) who are responsible for a certain section should be listed so they can be contacted to add new information or to remove errors.
 
Last edited:
I think it's a great idea, and would be happy to contribute to the project.
 

Back
Top Bottom