Orders are: Shoot to kill. Iraq? No, the US.
CFLarsen said:
Why do I get the feeling we are going to see shootings of people who are only looking for food and supplies? While they do need to stop the rampant killing, raping, and hijacking, there has got to be some leeway given those only seeking to survive. Hopefully, these troops will not adopt a shoot all the "looters" first, ask questions later approach.
just my two cents,
Santa
kuroyume0161
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My question is this: What took them so long?
I truly now know that this government sucks. I say that we vote every Congressman, Representative, and person in the Executive branch (too bad we can't do the same for the Judicial branch) out of office and replace them all with something that resembles competence...
When I saw the size and ferocity of Katrina on Saturday night, it was assured that it wouldn't go well. Mandatory evacuations should have included the collecting of hundreds of buses and using them to move the populations out, especially hospitals and retirement homes. National Guard, militia, and humanitarian aid should have been being organized then! Here we are six days after the disaster started and there is the possibility that thousands (if not tens of thousands) have perished. And the excuse mongers are still rattling - 'we're mobilizing, we're mobilizing'. Mobilization should have started Saturday and aid and troops should have arrived by Monday or Tuesday, en force and masse.
Yes, shoot the mofos!! Any human being that would fire on innocent, unarmed people in need of rescue and the helicopters being used to save their lives deserves to be shot with a 50mm machine gun round until the only remnants are little blood specks all over the place. These people are committing atrocities - KILL them.
I truly now know that this government sucks. I say that we vote every Congressman, Representative, and person in the Executive branch (too bad we can't do the same for the Judicial branch) out of office and replace them all with something that resembles competence...
When I saw the size and ferocity of Katrina on Saturday night, it was assured that it wouldn't go well. Mandatory evacuations should have included the collecting of hundreds of buses and using them to move the populations out, especially hospitals and retirement homes. National Guard, militia, and humanitarian aid should have been being organized then! Here we are six days after the disaster started and there is the possibility that thousands (if not tens of thousands) have perished. And the excuse mongers are still rattling - 'we're mobilizing, we're mobilizing'. Mobilization should have started Saturday and aid and troops should have arrived by Monday or Tuesday, en force and masse.
Yes, shoot the mofos!! Any human being that would fire on innocent, unarmed people in need of rescue and the helicopters being used to save their lives deserves to be shot with a 50mm machine gun round until the only remnants are little blood specks all over the place. These people are committing atrocities - KILL them.
kuroyume0161
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geni said:
It "achieves" the saving of innocent lives. People are being shot, raped, robbed, and who knows what else by rampant and armed thugs running around the streets unimpinged. The remaining police forces are hold up in their precinct buildings being shot at!
Any person seen with a gun not part of the military or police forces should be given one warning. If they do not freeze and drop the weapon - fire with deadly force. If any person is seen shooting, no warning - kill them with deadly force (I know, 'kill dead' is repetitive).
Military helicopters being used in rescue and relief operations which have the ability to hold heavy arms should be so armed so that if fired upon they can return fire with, again, deadly force.
Look, I might be a softy humanitarian, but when someone threatens my life, I will use whatever means to threaten theirs back. I might be soft, but I'm not stupid!
kuroyume0161
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geni said:
No, not really. I stated that people firing on innocent people and rescuers should be killed. I said nothing about those running around with guns and caught.
You have to remember that right now the 'armed thugs' outnumber the police and current militia. They have broken into stores that sell guns and ammunition - so they are well armed and supplied.
Better idea: Move the innocent victims out ASAP, but anyone found armed gets DISarmed, painted all over with a permanent green dye, and goes to the back of the queue, or is just not taken.
Rapists, arsonists and looters get an immediate ride...in chains to the nearest penitentiary, and the full weight of the existing law for these crimes.
Rapists, arsonists and looters get an immediate ride...in chains to the nearest penitentiary, and the full weight of the existing law for these crimes.
kuroyume0161
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Zep said:
Okay... In what world are you living where, in a city under 10-20 feet of water with thousands of dead from various circumstances and devastation beyond belief, you are going to provide evidenced trials for 5-10 thousand 'alleged' criminals?
They can't even get 1000 troops into NO!
Chris O.
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Zep said:
Forget prison, pick them up in the helicopter, say 1000ft, and shove them out. Quick, painless, and really satisfying. Then send their neighbors, family, and friends a video tape of the crime followed by the punishment. There's no excuse for that kind of behavior, the helicopter was coming to SAVE YOU!
Problem with the last part is the prosecution. The arresting officer would have to appear in court, testify, "Yes, Your Honor, on September 2, I arrested the defendant. He was carrying a Sony WEGA 42" plasma TV, serial number..."Zep said:
Multiply by 1000 or 5000 or whatever, and you see the problem.
Okay...
1) Police/militia/army should shoot dead anyone else who is shooting and not wearing a law-enforcement uniform.
2) Civilians brandishing a gun should be given the opportunity to put it down; if they refuse, treat as #1 above.
3) Looters should be loaded up into the paddy wagon/armored vehicle/whatever and taken to the city convention center where they are stripped utterly naked, dyed green (I like that part), and held there until order is restored, and people are allowed to return home, even if that takes months. Then they can be released, in their birthday suits, with no further prosecution.
Question: Why has martial law not been proclaimed?
kuroyume0161
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BPSCG, exactly. And this is my response in another thread - minus the birthday suits (3).
Looting right now is the least of their troubles and it is true that many people are looting necessities (that remain). But looters claiming necessities in a jewelry store, enact 3!
Looting right now is the least of their troubles and it is true that many people are looting necessities (that remain). But looters claiming necessities in a jewelry store, enact 3!
kuroyume0161
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Zep said:You misunderstand. They get a fast ride to the nearest jail cell, and a nice long wait for justice to prevail - say, until the city is back on its feet and the courthouses can open? Could take many many months, even years...
With our current judicial systems and waits, maybe decades!
I'd not put all the bad eggs in one basket by incarcerating them in one place - recipe for total anarchy. Paint 'em green but make 'em work for their food - I suggest body collection, or sewer shoveling detail. The most ****-festering jobs going, and there will be some real doozies soon, no doubt. No work, no food, no way off the island.BPSCG said:
Zep said:
First off, there ARE no "innocent victims." Anyone who is still there is there because they defied a mandatory, legal evacuation order. Not a notice, not a suggestion, an ORDER.
And is it reasonable to expect soldiers to behave with all the rules of engagement a cop is obliged to follow? In these circumstances, all the benefit of the doubt goes to the soldier, not the looter.
Gas is over $3.50 a gallon, and you want to give these subhuman scum a ride? Right, let me know where to send the bill.
The problem, Zep, is that there IS no law there now. I don't know why, but public order has broken down. It's the law of the jungle, has been practically since the rain stopped falling.
It began when no one was starving, no one was sick. It began when a bunch of criminals decided to rob the city blind when it was most vulnerable. It's subhuman, literally. It's hyena-like. I have no problem shooting a hyena.
I'll wager it costs less to truck out 100 dead looters than it does to bus out 100 live ones.
Something I heard on CNN: 60% of N.O. police officers were unaccounted for.
Nice. The largest disaster in L.A. history and over half your police force goes missing. Several blogs have already reported that N.O. police were involved in the looting. The Big Easy's police corrupt? Say it ain't so!
I can wait until things get back under control. But when they do and everyone starts point fingers -- as you know they will -- one of my very first questions will be: "Why the hell did the state wait so long to declare martial law?"
Nice. The largest disaster in L.A. history and over half your police force goes missing. Several blogs have already reported that N.O. police were involved in the looting. The Big Easy's police corrupt? Say it ain't so!
I can wait until things get back under control. But when they do and everyone starts point fingers -- as you know they will -- one of my very first questions will be: "Why the hell did the state wait so long to declare martial law?"
Jocko said:
See, here's the problem. OK, not the problem, but a problem. I share your general instinct on this matter. But NOPD has a history of being the worst, most corrupt in the country. Like, actually criminal corrupt. Mexico City corrupt. A person who obeyed an evacuation order there had no reasonable expectation that their possessions would be safe if they obeyed the order and the hurricane hit somewhere else like it had in previous situations.quote:
Originally posted by shuize
Something I heard on CNN: 60% of N.O. police officers were unaccounted for.
With the benefit of hindsight, the people who stayed erred -- the hurricane did hit, and their possessions were damaged even prior to any looting. But it's not like a trustworthy government came to them and said "leave, we'll look after the city." Not trusting the government or the police force is a completely rational thing to do in New Orleans.
To be clear, I don't know if the specific statistic cited by shuize is correct. It was just a timely reminder that New Orleans residents did not have and should not have had the faith in their local officials that residents of other cities might have.