Only God exists: Monism.

lifegazer

Philosopher
Joined
Oct 9, 2003
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Hello everyone. Here are some more thoughts of my own; though I recognise that I'm not the first to discuss such issues. But I am confident that I will bring some originality to this forum. So please feel free to engage in intelligent debate...


I equate 'our' existence with Heidegger's concept of Dasein: 'we' are being. But 'we' are not the ~doing~. Causality emanates from the same source which yields 'we'... which by default, is not 'we'. Solipsism dies a death unless it acknowledges that God is the source of 'we-ness'. That the identity of each individual is God itself.

Monistic-Idealism or Monism (as I believe my/this philosophy is technically-labelled) finally makes sense of the processes occuring when 'an observer' collapses ~the wave~ of any potential state-of-being (particles). So this philosophy makes sense of QM.
Apparently, a thing is only 'a thing' when we say that it is. Until that moment, that thing (particle) exists purely as a potential to exist - a wave of existence. The vast majority of these 'things' behave in a way that is "probablistic", infering that there is an order being imposed upon the unpredictable-energy of existence, but also infering that it is imposed by that very energy of existence, to itself: Self-order.
Energy which is potentially free to go wherever it wants, but which generally conforms to a specific order (probability), must be self-conforming to that order. I.e., doing what it decides to do.
And I am not advocating that particles have intelligence, since there is no such thing as a particle until seen in the subjective-awareness of a material-reality. I am, however, advocating that the potential-energy to have being anywhere within your perception, is The Mind exercising its own intelligence and will through awareness - placing itself [as particles, etc.) where it decides they shall go.

'Monism' finally makes sense of 'an observer' who can come to know things.
The ability of any observer ~to know~ is dependent upon that observer's inherent faculty to reason.
Whatever this ability to reason is, we can see that it had to be in us before anything was ever conciously-understood. There cannot be concious knowledge without the prior concious-ability to reason knowledge.
... So, the ability to know anything is dependent upon the ability to know everything, prior to unveiling anything.
Reason before knowledge is an inescapable fact. Our concious minds had the ability to understand everything (certainly everything which we have thus-far unveiled by reason) before they ever came to comprehend anything.
This begs the question as to how the brain would have the ability to reason prior to knowing anything. Any takers? Can material processes create a brain which can reason about things before it sees those things?

Monism can also make sense of Einstein's Laws of Relativity whereby values of existence, such as 'a second' or 'a meter' or 'the speed of light' always mean the same to the individual, but change qualitatively as we compare our experiences (twin-paradox, for example) of our own motion/velocity through our perceived-universe. Yet our experiences as a whole can be expressed with mathematical-equations for that whole. These are the same for everyone. So, even though the perception of space & time is qualitatively-different for everyone - infering that we're all seeing the universe differently - our separate awarenesses share a common mathematical bond to one another. Therefore, we are all immersed in the same thing somehow... completely sharing an identical existence, subjectively-distorted by our own actions/motion through what we perceive.

I could write all night about this stuff. This post is about gaining attention. I thankyou if I got yours.
 
Where is the Ranch? I like Ranch dressing with my word salad, please.
 
LG, forgive me if I'm in error in my comprehension, but permit me:

The problem I see with what you call "Monism" is that I must still deal with a real-life world, and all that goes with it. I may be an "observer," as such, but I'm still required in interact with what it is I'm observing. This is not only required for basic validation of my existence, but, perhaps more important, it's the only way I can provide sufficient elements of consumables to maintain said existence. (Ya gotta eat, Dude.)

Aside from this, there's also the matter of conflict between what I'm observing, and what others are observing. Your thoughts, please?
 
Roadtoad said:
The problem I see with what you call "Monism" is that I must still deal with a real-life world, and all that goes with it. I may be an "observer," as such, but I'm still required in interact with what it is I'm observing.
This is true. But it's also true for the dreams you have when you lose conciousness to this realm. You lose yourself within your sensations and interact with them so that you think the dream is an external experience. Until you awake.
This is not only required for basic validation of my existence, but, perhaps more important, it's the only way I can provide sufficient elements of consumables to maintain said existence. (Ya gotta eat, Dude.)
It is certainly true that the body we perceive of having has energy requirements. Our body does not escape the laws of nature - the 2nd law of thermodynamics, I think, would be why we eat food. The body loses energy to its perceived environment. Therefore, the body needs to re-absorb that energy through eating. The body can be destroyed.
But you should bare in mind that this philosophy reduces all observers to one eternal Mind which does not need to eat unless it perceives itself as a body with energy requirements.
Aside from this, there's also the matter of conflict between what I'm observing, and what others are observing. Your thoughts, please?
Are you asking me how God could have more than one perception at a time?
Baring in mind that time is relative and that God is to be viewed as the creator of the things in time which are perceived [by God], this question doesn't seem to have any merit.
Thankyou for your attention.
 
Greetings lifegazer.


Hello everyone. Here are some more thoughts of my own; though I recognise that I'm not the first to discuss such issues. But I am confident that I will bring some originality to this forum. So please feel free to engage in intelligent debate...

A much better statement then
You skeptics are hard work. Hard to talk to.


I equate 'our' existence with Heidegger's concept of Dasein: 'we' are being. But 'we' are not the ~doing~. Causality emanates from the same source which yields 'we'... which by default, is not 'we'. Solipsism dies a death unless it acknowledges that God is the source of 'we-ness'. That the identity of each individual is God itself.

I respect you believe this and respect you. I as I said am hoping to find contained as you go on proof is “God” as that will be the foundation of your belief and must first be proven for this belief to again be presented as a statement of “fact” and not a statement of belief.

After proving God then you must prove we are
We are branches of God,

Then thirdly you must prove that “God” is
the only existing entity.



Monistic-Idealism or Monism (as I believe my/this philosophy is technically-labelled) finally makes sense of the processes occuring when 'an observer' collapses ~the wave~ of any potential state-of-being (particles). So this philosophy makes sense of QM.

This would be limited to people who believe “we” “ I” are things or are the body “we” inhabit.

I am Buddhist and so do not believe in self, soul, I etc. Nothing is in and of itself, self.

The body is not “self” as it is completely comprised of non self-elements. Many other life forms share the body. It is compound and ever changing and is subject to death and decay. All “things” compound are like this.

The brain is also compound and the same as all such things and is not “me”.

“my” personality etc is not “me” as in a self or soul as it to is shaped by countless causes and conditions. Parents, events, friends, emotions etc etc.

A self or soul must be nothing other then just that, self not comprised of anything other then just “self” not effected or influenced or shaped by anything other then just “itself” For if it is composed or shaped or influenced by even the most minuscule non-self effect it is no longer self.



We know that matter and energy can not be destroyed or created, we as Buddhist believe that we “are” what we call the true nature of mind. Not the clouded grasping, craving ego controlled ordinary mind with its emotions etc. But a true nature of mind that is like a single drop of ocean water not separate from the ocean or different from other drops just all ocean.

We believe this is also not created nor distorted, not born not destroyed without beginning nor end. I am not all that intelligent so can not explain fully or well as one more skilled as to explaining Buddhist belief.

Now this belief as to mind I fully believe is true but can not prove it so make it only as a statement of belief and will not demand it is true or demand if you do not believe it you are lost, or blind etc.

Apparently, a thing is only 'a thing' when we say that it is.

Why?

Who is the ‘sayer” or “ observer”?

Allow me to ask you the same question I asked Franko and I believe you will unlike my great friend Franko at least attempt to answer it.

We or scientist through ever improving technology can see deeper into space all the time. Due to this we can see “discover” “new” or better word previously, by humans undiscovered or seen planets.

Is it your belief that the planet a scientist sees today for the first time by a human did not exist yesterday?

Did in the very second he/she saw it all the causes and conditions come together and billions of years of gasses converting to solids etc just occur?





Until that moment, that thing (particle) exists purely as a potential to exist - a wave of existence.

So all the conditions for that planet were right there all the gasses/ matter but it was not formed until the scientist saw it? What happened first the seeing or the creation? They could not happen at the same time and if it happened before his eye focused then it existed before if after he would know it was not there and then flash , it was there.

Please remember these “things” in this case the planet are comprised of matter. Matter not created nor destroyed. Even if your statement of
Until that moment, that thing (particle) exists purely as a potential to exist - a wave of existence.
was true it is wrong as the matter is a “thing” is it not? All “things” are comprised of matter so that thing is matter and the matter the thing.

If your position is “God” observed it and that is why it is there, you MUST prove God.

A quote I use very often is by David Brooks in these cases.
To explain the unknown by the known is a logical procedure; to explain the knownby the unknown is a form of theological lunacy." – David Brooks


The vast majority of these 'things' behave in a way that is "probablistic", infering that there is an order being imposed upon the unpredictable-energy of existence, but also infering that it is imposed by that very energy of existence, to itself: Self-order.

This is the “intelligent design” argument. The stand that basically “ anything this complex must be created, designed, controlled by something more complex”.

This position is of course self defeating. If all things need to be created or controlled by something more complex then your God would be very complex and thus need a creator more complex to create “him”. On and on that would go endlessly. Self defeating.

You said
We are branches of God, the only existing entity.


What is this entity/ thing comprised of? What came first the things/matter that make up this entity or the entity? The matter would have to come first, who created that?

Where does this entity reside? What is his realm of existence, who made it? “he” could not create the realm of existence as he would need to be someplace or exist somewhere before making that one.


Energy which is potentially free to go wherever it wants, but which generally conforms to a specific order (probability), must be self-conforming to that order. I.e., doing what it decides to do.


It “does” or operates as it does, what is simply is. Whatever statement you make about matter or energy remove the word matter or energy and insert God and then ask yourself the same question.


And I am not advocating that particles have intelligence, since there is no such thing as a particle until seen in the subjective-awareness of a material-reality.

May I ask you to prove this?

I am, however, advocating that the potential-energy to have being anywhere within your perception, is The Mind exercising its own intelligence and will through awareness - placing itself [as particles, etc.) where it decides they shall go.

So if my mind decides the “particles”/matter this is elephant can fly, will it?

Why is that all
Mind exercising its own intelligence and will through awareness
or most I never try to say “all” have decided to see “particles”/matter this is elephant as something that can not fly or float in the air?




'Monism' finally makes sense of 'an observer' who can come to know things.


I respect you believe this but as of yet fail to see how.


The ability of any observer ~to know~ is dependent upon that observer's inherent faculty to reason.

I agree mainly. But this statement seems to contradict your base statement
We are branches of God, the only existing entity.

If only God is a entity which means body, thing, article etc “we” are not observing anything or capable of such only the entity can.

Your finger is a branch of your body, does it thing, see, observe, think?


Whatever this ability to reason is, we can see that it had to be in us before anything was ever conciously-understood. There cannot be concious knowledge without the prior concious-ability to reason knowledge.

Take that statement above and remove the word us and add God and ask the question to yourself.

Example:
Whatever this ability to reason is, we can see that it had to be in GOD before anything was ever conciously-understood. There cannot be concious knowledge (in GOD )without the prior concious-ability to reason knowledge.

As you see your position is now self defeating.

Please again refer to David Brooks
To explain the unknown by the known is a logical procedure; to explain the known by the unknown is a form of theological lunacy." – David Brooks


As I said I believe in reality, reality is an illusion but as Einstein said
Einstein, Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent
one. Albert Einstein


... So, the ability to know anything is dependent upon the ability to know everything, prior to unveiling anything.

So you believe you know everything?

If there was nothing before “knowing” there was and is nothing to know from what you said.

Reason before knowledge is an inescapable fact. Our concious minds had the ability to understand everything (certainly everything which we have thus-far unveiled by reason) before they ever came to comprehend anything.

I believe that the true nature of mind is always perfect or fully awake and is always there, we are always enlightened we simply do not see it due to grasping, cravings, greed, emotions, conditioning i.e. ordinary mind.

What do you say is “ all things” facts like the Yankees would pull out that game last night or who will win the first round of the 2027 East Podunk golf open for people from east Podonk who have the first name Fred?

What is “ knowing ALL things”?

If your God knows all things why this game?

Why allow these beings/branches to be self-aware and suffer such great sufferings? Why allow some “branches” to suffer far less then others and some to suffer unspeakable pain and suffering?

PLEASE answer all my questions as I promise I will yours.


This begs the question as to how the brain would have the ability to reason prior to knowing anything. Any takers?


Brain and mind are 2 distinctly different things as to my belief as I have said.

I am not sure about the answer and need think about it more perhaps I will never know.

But I ask you to ask the same question to yourself this way.

This begs the question as to how GOD’S brain would have the ability to reason prior to knowing anything. Any takers?

Can material processes create a brain which can reason about things before it sees those things?

My belief as the true nature of mind answers this. Mind and the compound, impermanent brain which is subject to death and decay are 2 different things.


But again I ask you to ask yourself the same question this way.

Can material processes create GOD’s brain which can reason about things before it sees those things?

Monism can also make sense of Einstein's Laws of Relativity whereby values of existence, such as 'a second' or 'a meter' or 'the speed of light' always mean the same to the individual, but change qualitatively as we compare our experiences (twin-paradox, for example) of our own motion/velocity through our perceived-universe.

Einstein's Laws of Relativity make sense already. You are just adding in something that is not needed. One can do the same thing with Santa or the Great pumpkin.

Yet our experiences as a whole can be expressed with mathematical-equations for that whole. These are the same for everyone. So, even though the perception of space & time is qualitatively-different for everyone - infering that we're all seeing the universe differently –



We are NOT “all” seeing the universe differently.

This again goes against your statement of there is only God and we are branches.. I ask again does your finger see the world or think in a different way then you do?

our separate awarenesses share a common mathematical bond to one another. Therefore, we are all immersed in the same thing somehow... completely sharing an identical existence, subjectively-distorted by our own actions/motion through what we perceive.

I agree though never say “ all people think this or that”.

I look forward to your response and answers to all my questions and statements.

You will find I will answer everything you ask. If I make a statement of belief I will say that is what it is, belief and seek to give my logical conclusion.

If I make a statement of fact, I will give supporting facts and my logical conclusion.


If I do not know, I will say I do not know.

I hope you will do the same and we can have a great exchange.

What I know for certain is there certainly is much I do not know.

May you be well and happy.
 
Pahansiri said:
After proving God then you must prove we are

Then thirdly you must prove that “God” is
Well the purpose of this thread was to prove those things.
I aimed to show the reasons which unveil reality as an omnipresent-awareness which creates everything it becomes aware of. I imply that knowledge of quantum-reality and relativity infers such a reality, and I also will discuss who 'we' are in relation to this reality: mere perceptions of being, occuring within Its awareness.
This would be limited to people who believe “we” “ I” are things or are the body “we” inhabit.
Do you have a base understanding of QM? If you do, I can talk about certain experiments and facts I am aware of, and use them to explain my position.
I am Buddhist and so do not believe in self, soul, I etc. Nothing is in and of itself, self.
I'm not sure I understand. How can there be a reality of anything if nothing has any true identity?
Many other life forms share the body.
The body of what? The body of a reality that has no identity? Wouldn't that body resemble a form of identity, in itself?
The brain is also compound and the same as all such things and is not “me”.
I agree. So who are 'you'?
“my” personality etc is not “me” as in a self or soul as it to is shaped by countless causes and conditions. Parents, events, friends, emotions etc etc.
So then the real you does have feelings, but those feelings don't necessarily reflect the truth of the situation.
A self or soul must be nothing other then just that, self not comprised of anything other then just “self” not effected or influenced or shaped by anything other then just “itself” For if it is composed or shaped or influenced by even the most minuscule non-self effect it is no longer self.
Yes, I can see what you are saying. My argument to you would be that the self who truly exists, is the omnipresent-God I've already mentioned. Buddhism, imo, sees the body of God-ness, but not the will and purpose which also emanates from that body. A truly interesting religion where much wisdom and well-being can be found. But it doesn't go far enough for me. Hopefully, my opinion won't have offended you.

I'll respond to the rest of your post shortly.
 
Lifegazer my friend.

I asked that you give the same respect I gave you when I answered or addressed every point and question your first post asked and offered.

Your response skipped around and picked and choose what it would address and what it would not. I was going to respond to what you did try to address but will not until you again start at the beginning of my post to you and answer each question and address my points. To simply ignore questions and points, statements will not make them go away and is not respectful debate.

I am not saying my technique is perfect but I believe it is most honest and logical as to starting at the top ot beginning of a post and addressing everything in order, everything.

Be well. I look forward to your full responce.
 
Good Lord, was I this egotistical and simplistic when I first joined?

I think I came close. My humble apologies if I was.
 

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