One more vote for Kerry?

[Bjorn]

In the beginning of May Rikzilla promised something along these lines:

If it comes to light that this Abu Ghraib thing was not an isolated incident of sophmoric brutality...if it is proved that there existed a general policy of torture and these 6 individuals were under orders to perform their cruelties....then I pledge here and now to hold GWB responsible at the ballot box and will loudly cast my vote for Mr. Kerry.

In fact I think this might have been the first time he posted this (05/08/04).

His promise has been brought up several times later, but of course evidence of who knew what and who told who to do what have made it difficult to say "haha, there you see, vote Gore".

05/20/04 Rik posted:

That said I still am fairly well furious with the DOD and by extension the Bush admin for creating conditions in which such an atrocity as Abu Ghraib could exist. Yet, there is still no proof that is goes any higher than a localized command chain failure.

It is tempting to ask:

1.

Do you see a difference between "an isolated incident of sophmoric brutality" and "a localized command chain failure"? They're both your own words, changed a little bit as time went by.

2.

Since you are furious that "Bush admin created conditions in which such an atrocity as Abu Ghraib could exist", do you still think that it was "an isolated incident of sophmoric brutality"?

05/20/04 Rik also posted:

As of this time, there is still little evidence that this goes higher. I appreciate the links, but I'm not going to be looking for evidence from President Bush's enemies. If the evidence is real I will be able to get it from the Washington Post or NYT.

To quote again the essential part of your first post on the subject:

if it is proved that there existed a general policy of torture and these 6 individuals were under orders to perform their cruelties

Fox News today is quoting the latest report:

The Denver Post has reported the Army plans to file criminal charges against Chief Warrant Officers Lewis Welshofer and Jeff Williams in the suffocation death of Maj. Gen. Abed Hamed Mowhoush.

Troops who forced two detainees to jump off a bridge into Iraq's Tigris River — killing one — had discussed the plan as an entire platoon before carrying it out, apparently with the support of the platoon sergeant. Three soldiers have been charged with involuntary manslaughter in the Jan. 3 drowning and another faces charges of pushing the second man, who survived, into the river.

The review found 94 cases of confirmed or alleged abuses and 39 deaths, 20 of which were ruled homicides or remain under investigation

It certainly doesn't look like six guys playing sophomoric brutality games to me.

Members of the government is quoted as saying: "Can only be described as cruel and blatantly sadistic"

Who're you going to vote for, Rik?

I've left out waterboarding, prisoners hid from the Red Cross, investigations into "how much can we do before it becomes torture, is the president really bound by those laws anyhow?

 

[demon]

The USUK only "abuse" prisoners.
Arabs of course "torture" them.

Easy really.

 

[shanek]

Heh. Like that line from Babylon 5:

"When did all of this happen?"

"When we rewrote the dictionary."

 

[demon]

"Heh. Like that line from Babylon 5:

"When did all of this happen?"

"When we rewrote the dictionary.""

Hi there shanek...yes, I like the way you put that

 

[aerocontrols]

50,000 processed detainees

94 confirmed or alleged cases of abuse.

I'm glad the abuse cases are coming to light, and that those responsible are being punished.

I wonder if any victor in history has such a clean record.

 

[Bjorn]

That's somehow a different question. What I asked Rik was if he still thinks this Abu Ghraib thing was an isolated incident of sophmoric brutality.