Og det var Danmark ...

dann

Penultimate Amazing
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A few highlights from the history of Danish foreign policy and diplomacy

"All nations bigger than Denmark are crocks of doo-doo." Kurt Vonnegut
"And so is Denmark, just smaller ..." dann

Like the inhabitants of all other nations with a glorious past, Danes tend to think of themselves as part of a tradition, which is probably the reason why, over the years, illustrations from 'our' viking past have been printed on Danish banknotes alongside portraits of prominent dead Danes such as Ole Rømer, Hans Christian Andersen, H.C. Ørsted, Karen Blixen and Niels Bohr: http://www.nationalbanken.dk/DNUK/NotesAndCoins.nsf/side/Denmarks_banknote_series!OpenDocument

And it is true! (but nothing to be proud of, in my opinion.) A thousand years ago the vikings were able to conquer most of Scandinavia, major parts of England and plunder cities as far away as Paris and Constantinoble. And today Denmark has troops stationed in distant countries, Afghanistan and Iraq, but that is a story that we'll return to in due course.

If you look at maps of Denmark through the ages, the actual nation and its sphere of influence in the Baltic region, it soon becomes apparent that it has shrunk considerably: Maps of Denmark/Scandinavia and the Baltic region:
www.zum.de/whkmla/histatlas/scandinavia/haxdenmark.html
In 1658 it had almost shrunk to its present size when Sweden conquered Scania/Skåne on the other side of the Øresund, the sound separating Denmark from Sweden. It still had control of parts of Schleswig and Holstein (now Northwestern Germany) but lost (a little more than) these possessions in 1864 when Prussia and Austria liberated them as part of Prussia's unification project that created Germany.
Because Germany lost a war in 1919, a part of the territory lost in 1864 was returned to Denmark in a plebiscite forced upon Germany by the powers that won WWI. (Denmark had been neutral and profiteered from the war because it was able to do business with all the countries involved in the war.)

It is interesting to look at the reason why Denmark wasn't swallowed completely by Sweden in the war that made Scania Swedish: The more powerful nations in Europe wouldn't let it happen! Until that war Denmark had controlled the seaward approach to the Baltic Sea which was a nuisance to nations doing business in that area: customs, a major source of income for the Crown! They did not want to let another country get this kind of monopoly! This is probably the only reason why Denmark still exists as an autonomous nation, surrounded by much more powerful countries!

It also helps explains Denmark's position in the cold war:

"In an international crisis the Soviet Union - especially if the duration of the crisis is long - will be very interested in access to and from the Atlantic Ocean through the Baltic Sea." Well, actually the Soviet Union would be interested in this all the time, but in an international crisis certain powers might want to put a stop to it! "Here - in the Baltic - the USSR has more than half of its capacity in shipyards and supplies. If a crisis threatens to prolong itself, sooner or later the Soviet Union must be able to supply and repair its vessels in the Atlantic Ocean from its bases and shipyards on the coasts of the Baltic Sea. Therefore the Soviet Union needs to be free to sail through the Danish straits and sounds." (major Flemming Schroll Nielsen: AMF - NATO's krisestyrke, p.24-25, my translation)

"As we saw in the case of Murmansk in connection with Northern Norway, it is not very likely that the Soviet, Polish and East German forces in the Baltic area are deployed in order to be a threat to Denmark." !!! "They, too, should be seen in a larger - global - context. But the outcome will be the same! If a tense situation should arise anywhere in the world, and the USSR would want to secure its ability to sail unhindered in and out of the the Baltic," ... or if NATO would want to put a stop to this! "then the Soviet Union may feel tempted to seize control of the opening of the Baltic into the Atlantic." (p. 25-26)

So the logic actually was: By controlling Denmark, NATO would be able to put a stop to not only the Russian, but also the East German and Polish fleets as well, which would make the Warsaw Pact countries want to attack Denmark, a very small, impotent nation. Therefore it was of vital importance to NATO to make it obvious that they wouldn't then be at war with just Denmark, but with all of the Allied Mobile Force:

"If you attack now, you will be at war with troops from Seeland - i.e. Denmark. You will also be confronted with troops from eight other NATO countries." (Belgium, Canada, England, Holland, Italy, Luxemburg, the USA and West Germany) (...) "and that means that an attack on Denmark is an attack on all of the NATO alliance." (p. 36)

As a conseqence of its position Danish dipomacy and foreign policy has been based on trying not to piss off the major players in European affairs, since the existence of the country is based on the favours of the powerful nations in the region: Russia, Germany, Great Britain. 'We' have always relied on the kindness of strangers! That is not as easy to do as it may sound, since these nations were often at war with each other. During the Napoleonic wars Nelson almost completely destroyed the Danish fleet. It took the Germans about half an hour to occupy the country, April 9, 1940.

Like most other small, but fairly wealthy nations (Holland or the other Scandinavian countries) Denmark's speciality used to be on the field of virtuous ideals of international relations. If Denmark couldn't compete in international affairs with the major players, it could at least live up to the ideals of the UN and pay the required percentage of its GNP to aid countries in the so-called Third World. And since Denmark, due to its size, wasn't able to make a lot of enemies, the Danes cultivated an image of themselves as having the ideal relationship between political leaders and the populace - sometimes to the extent that the demonstration of this relationship pissed off leaders of other countries.

(In October 1972 when Denmark joined the EEC (now the EU), I was on a class trip to Paris. Sitting at a sidewalk café we watched as a policeman manually switched the traffic lights on and off to enable the big limos accompanied by motorcycles swish by, carrying the representative of the nine (?) member states away from some meeting. At one point the policeman looked confused, waited a while, and then he switched the traffic lights back to automatic and left. Ten minutes later another limo drove by as part of the ordinary traffic and without motorcycles - and (of course) with the (now so familiar!) Danish flag. Premier Anker Jørgensen enjoyed doing stunts like that, which naturally upset the security arrangements in general.
As part of the Danish national mythology an anecdote of Czar Peter the Great visiting Denmark is told: He and the Danish king were standing on top of Rundetårn, a round tower in central Copenhagen. Czar Peter bragged to the Danish king that he was so powerful that if he ordered one of his servants to jump off the tower, he would do so. The Danish king then told (off) Czar Peter that his own power rested on the loyalty of his subjects who knew that he would never order them to do a thing like that.
We do indeed live in the country of fairy-tale writer Hans Christian Andersen ...)

In recent years, however, Danish foreign ministers have enjoyed the power and significance it gives them to be part of a (super)powerful alliance. Before the Soviet Bloc collapsed completely they were able to go to Moscow and speak more or less on behalf of NATO, and in recent years they have had troops stationed in the Balkans, in Afghanistan and in Iraq. Until now, however, the Moslem and Arab world did not really notice the existence of Denmark whose role in these wars was mainly symbolic as one of the countries mentioned by Bush as part of the Coalition of the Willing!
At the very beginning of the current Iraqi war, Bush gave Anders Fogh Rasmussen the commission to go back to Europe and head the endeavours of making the Unwilling European nations join the war against Saddam Hussein and his alleged WMDs. When asked about his attitude to this by a Danish reporter, a French premier was heard saying: "What??! I never heard of such a thing!" By a reporter on Danish TV this was interpreted as an embarrassment, since this French statesman obviously hadn't done his homework properly.
In reality, however, the embarrassment, of course, was that the Danish premier was snubbed by the Frenchman who found the idea so utterly ridiculous that he pretended that he hadn't heard of this US affront to the old powers of Europe: Bush's suggestion that a Danish premier LEAD anything concerning them!

As recent developments (the "Cartoon Controversy", aptly named!) show, Danish diplomacy may have overrated its support from its powerful allies when it refused to meet with ambassadors from Moslem countries for talks about the cartoons published by the daily Jyllands Posten ....
There's a BIG difference between the USA and Denmark in this respect. Pointing at the high ideals of democracy and free speech isn't worth much when you are the leader of an impotent nation like Denmark. It may serve to convince the people that are subject to your power, but it doesn't help you much abroad. (And Jyllands Posten's campaign was probably never meant to be seen by an audience outside of Denmark!) If you represent a superpower like the USA, however, it is so much easier to pretend that these ideals are all you care about:
http://www.gegenstandpunkt.com/english/improving-the-world.html
Patriotism in a superpower never LOOKS as childish as patriotism in 'nations no bigger than Denmark' ...
http://www.gegenstandpunkt.com/english/patriotism.html
Edited to correct year: 1945 --> 1940!
 
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As part of the Danish national mythology an anecdote of Czar Peter the Great visiting Denmark is told: He and the Danish king were standing on top of Rundetårn, a round tower in central Copenhagen. Czar Peter bragged to the Danish king that he was so powerful that if he ordered one of his servants to jump off the tower, he would do so. The Danish king then told (off) Czar Peter that his own power rested on the loyalty of his subjects who knew that he would never order them to do a thing like that.

While I agree it is probably just an anecdote, if you want to tell it, tell it right. The Danish King answered: "Well maybe you can, but when I am travelling in my country, I can stop for the night at any house I choose, they will gladly give me a bed, and I can sleep there safely. Can you do that?" (Czar Peter would most likely be killed in his sleep if he tried)

I think you story is that of a small nation that has somehow managed to maneuvre safely through sometimes very troubled waters, and which has been able to build and maintain one of the best democracies on the planet, and has become comparatively wealthy in the process :D.



Hans
 
Nice recap, Dann. You are quite right: We exist only as a nation, because others couldn't agree on who should "have" us.

(And Jyllands Posten's campaign was probably never meant to be seen by an audience outside of Denmark!)

The intention was to establish that we could, according to Danish law, depict Muhammed, even as a caricature. The debate at the time was solely within Denmark.

The strange thing about these 12 drawings is that some make fun not of Muhammed, but of JP. It is very true that some people don't have a sense of humor...
 
While I agree it is probably just an anecdote, if you want to tell it, tell it right.
Mythology always comes in different shapes and sizes. It's not an exact science:

"Der Turm hat keine Treppe mit Absätzen; man gelangt auf einem in spiralförmigen Windungen sich schlängelnden Estrich hinauf, der so glatt und geebnet ist, dass der Zar Peter von Russland einst in einem Wagen mit Biergespann (må være en trykfejl: Viergespann lyder mere sandsynligt!) hinaufgefahren sein und oben einem seiner Diener befohlen haben soll, sich hinab zu stürzen. Dieser hätte gehorcht, hätte ihn nicht der dänische König daran gehindert. "Würden Deine Leute ebenso gehorsam sein?" fragte der Zar. - "Ich würde keinen solchen Befehl erteilen", antwortete der König, "aber ich weiss von meinen Dienern, selbst von dem geringsten, dass ich meinen Kopf in eines Jeden Schoss legen und dort ruhig schlafen kann".
So lautet die Sage und für die Dänen ist dieselbe sehr schön erfunden."

dtv Reise Textbuch Kopenhagen (DTV 1989)

Only slightly changed in my rendition: I forgot that the Danish king actually saved the Russian servant's life!

And I think that your presentation of the Danish national mythology is to the point. That is the story that 99% of all Danes believe in - even most of the Moslems, I think:
"... that of a small nation that has somehow managed to maneuvre safely through sometimes very troubled waters, and which has been able to build and maintain one of the best democracies on the planet, and has become comparatively wealthy in the process."
 
The strange thing about these 12 drawings is that some make fun not of Muhammed, but of JP. It is very true that some people don't have a sense of humor...
That isn't strange. These cartoonists knew that this was a campaign against the (Danish) Moslems - in the name of freedom of speech! If it weren't so embarrassing to Jyllands Posten, that is what they should point out to the infuriated Moslems!
 
Nice recap, Dann. You are quite right: We exist only as a nation, because others couldn't agree on who should "have" us.
We exist as a nation in exactly the same way that every other nation exists as a nation. By not being absorbed by other nations. And we have existed for a whole lot longer than most other nations in the world. Yet here we are. Doing fabulously well, I might add.
 
The only bad thing I can say about the Danes is that they chose the wrong side in the war of 1812, and subsequently lost Norway to Sweden :(
 
The only bad thing I can say about the Danes is that they chose the wrong side in the war of 1812, and subsequently lost Norway to Sweden :(
Sorry about that. We might have fought more vigourously had we but known that Norway had so much oil. :)
 
We exist as a nation in exactly the same way that every other nation exists as a nation. By not being absorbed by other nations.
I wouldn't really expect you to understand an argument pointing out why "we" were not "absorbed by other nations".
Apparently your national self-importance is easily offended! Get over it! You have had your fifteen minutes of patriotic self-delusion, basking in the alleged heroics of Jyllands Posten's anti-Moslem campaign and the consequent sympathy from US anti-Moslems!
Well, it backfired - and it was a stupid idea from the very beginning.
 
I wouldn't really expect you to understand an argument pointing out why "we" were not "absorbed by other nations".
I wouldn't really expect you to understand why it is irrelevant.
Apparently your national self-importance is easily offended! Get over it! You have had your fifteen minutes of patriotic self-delusion, basking in the alleged heroics of Jyllands Posten's anti-Moslem campaign and the consequent sympathy from US anti-Moslems!
Sorry? The Jyllands-Posten did not make an anti-Muslim campaign. It made a statement regarding free-speech. I'm appalled that you, as a free Dane, can't understand this.
Well, it backfired - and it was a stupid idea from the very beginning.
It backfired? In what way? Seems to me it was succesful beyond belief. It showed exactly that there is a lot of self-censorship in Denmark and that freedom of speech is in dire peril.
 
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It backfired? In what way? Seems to me it was succesful beyond belief. It showed exactly that there is a lot of self-censorship in Denmark and that freedom of speech is in dire peril.

He's right, you know. Who's going to dare making fun of Muhammed or Islam now? No one.
 
He's right, you know. Who's going to dare making fun of Muhammed or Islam now? No one.
It can only have backfired if the expected reaction (to the excercising of free speech) was one of indulgance and apathy. If no one had reacted, their point that self-censorship abounded in regard to Islam, would have been moot.

Their point was overwhelmingly shown to be true.
 
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Islam has lost a lot. Fear is not respect. Acting like petulant, backward children will not gain respect.

Freedom of speech is just getting started, if print media cannot support it they will cease to be a source of information. I am already thinking of canceling a subscription - why bother with them?

Political cartoonists are pissed. Islam will be hearing from them again. Muslims have no sense of humor - they are a great target.
 
Islam has lost a lot. Fear is not respect. Acting like petulant, backward children will not gain respect.
And we all know that the USA is respected, and not feared all around the world because of America's responsible, adult behaviour!
Freedom of speech is just getting started, if print media cannot support it they will cease to be a source of information. I am already thinking of canceling a subscription - why bother with them?
You wouldn't happen to subscribe to Jyllands Posten, would you?
Political cartoonists are pissed. Islam will be hearing from them again. Muslims have no sense of humor - they are a great target.
Unlike Jews and Christians with their legendary sense of humour! They would just adore having their gods caricatured and wouldn't dream of cancelling their subscriptions. All political cartoonists are well aware of the difference in attitudes!
 
It can only have backfired if the expected reaction (to the excercising of free speech) was one of indulgance and apathy. If no one had reacted, their point that self-censorship abounded in regard to Islam, would have been moot.

Their point was overwhelmingly shown to be true.
Exactly. When the cartoons were first published I thought the whole thing was a bit of silly and pointless posturing.

But what's happened since then has been a real eye opener for me.
And although I don't like much of what I see I'm glad that I did have my eyes opened.
 
In particular when they refused to print anti-Christians and anti-Jewish cartoons! That takes guts!
Such cartoons are printed regularly in the Muslim countries and have been easily available on the net for years.

Jylland-Posten has made its point.
 
Originally Posted by dann :
In particular when they refused to print anti-Christians and anti-Jewish cartoons! That takes guts!
Such cartoons are printed regularly in the Muslim countries and have been easily available on the net for years.
Jylland-Posten has made its point.
And what a point! If you want to see the interview with Flemming Rose, suspended cultural editor of Jyllands Posten, go down to "Flemming Rose", interview with editor:
http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/asiapcf/02/08/cartoon.protests/index.html
 

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