Noah's ark . Evidence for & against?

Soapy Sam

Penultimate Amazing
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To save me googling on a very slow network during work hours.

Any good links to:-
Ark debunking sites.
Ararat & Turkey / Iraqi investigations.
Anything supportive of the Ark's existence, (however improbable.)
(Serious) alternate Flood history sites (Black Sea / Sumeria etc).

Spaseba.
 
I don't think it is as simple as "for" or "against." The story is likely based on real events. I don't think it is unreasonable to believe there was may have been a guy who built a big boat to escape a huge flood, and put a lot of animals (livestock and the like) on the boat.

As far as their being a worldwide flood, I don't believe there is any evidence of that.

And someone building a boat large enough to hold 2 of every kind of animal in the world? That is just silly.
 
And someone building a boat large enough to hold 2 of every kind of animal in the world? That is just silly.

And since obviously those who believe in Noah's Ark don't believe in evolution...

That's over 2.5 million animals (known species only) + however many unknown species still exist (estimated over 5 million more arthropod species).

I mean... sure... insects are pretty small... but there's an estimated 3 million species of insect total...

6 million insects in the Ark? That's just silly. Not to mention the other animals...

As I understand it the "great flood" was actually a catastrophic flood of both the Tigris and Euphrates river systems.

-Andrew
 
And someone building a boat large enough to hold 2 of every kind of animal in the world? That is just silly.
Noah actually had to construct a boat capable of holding seven of most kinds of organism.
But he didn't have to have each organism, just some type of ancestral blueprint (baramins). Unfortunately, creationists are unable to explain the massive speciation/evolutionary process that occurred after these baramins decamped the ark.
Sorry to wander off topic. Wikipedia also has stuff on the ark, with some refs/links.
 
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Which story in the bible about Noah's ark are we talking about? There are two of them woven together. Hence the confusion above about how many animals of each species were taken aboard.
 
I don't think it is as simple as "for" or "against." The story is likely based on real events. I don't think it is unreasonable to believe there was may have been a guy who built a big boat to escape a huge flood, and put a lot of animals (livestock and the like) on the boat.


Come on... By what magical means would he know there was a large flood coming? The story is a myth, nothing more.
 
Come on... By what magical means would he know there was a large flood coming? The story is a myth, nothing more.

Actually, I've heard that the flood may be based on the flooding of the Black Sea basin, when around 5600 BC the level of the Mediterranean Sea rose to the point it it started pouring through the Bosporous and flooded what had up to then been a flat plain surrounding a large central fresh-water lake. The waters probably took weeks to fill in the basin, coming inward at a rate of one mile per day in places. I can imagine a clever person living inland from the initial flooding figuring out it might reach him, so he quickly builds some sort of boat and puts his family and animals in it.

The part about the boat is pure speculation, but the Black Sea did flood as I described, and signs of settlement have been found far underwater (see also http://www.religioustolerance.org/ev_noah.htm .) It's not a stretch at all to think this event was the real inspiration for Noah's Flood.
 
Actually, recent evidence shows that he actually just took the DNA from two (or seven) of each animal. If you read carefully "He tooketh two strands of every beast" (Gen 5:45) which clearly indicates two strands of DNA. Plus the 1945 expidition led by Lord Cronely of the UK, the one where he brought back actual wood to be tested (they ended up having to burn it in a fire to survive a blizzard, our loss I guess) he states that admidst the wood were thousands of teeny-tiny glass bottles. The samples he brought back mysteriously disappeard when they again reached the city of Yerevan. Lord Cronely was deeply upset at this as some bottles were unopened and he thought he could use them to bring back the dinosaurs.
 
And since obviously those who believe in Noah's Ark don't believe in evolution...

That's over 2.5 million animals (known species only) + however many unknown species still exist (estimated over 5 million more arthropod species).
But you see, Noah didn't have to take each species, just each kind. Two (or seven) bears, which then have further speciated into all the different kinds of bears we have nowadays, in just 6000 years.

If I ever come across anyone who actually believes this, I'd like to ask how they handle the discrepancy that evolution couldn't have happened in the billions of years science says it did, but these animals evolved into a great variety in just 6000 years.

Also, if each kind is represented, and all the bears are one kind, wouldn't that mean that all the great apes, including humans, are the same kind? So I wonder if Noah was some hairy, tree-dwelling creature, and modern humans evolved from that line after his time.
 
Having just read through a large encyclopedia of mythology, I can attest that flood legends and myths are pervasive in human culture. Often the myths even have a similar structure to the "Mosaic" flood myth. There is a Buddist flood story which is remarkably similar, for instance.

An interesting hypothesis for this would involve human pre-history and large-scale flood events that would have occurred just prior to the rise of known civilizations. With the human population at that time being still quite small, and still in the process of migration to various parts of the globe, it's not unreasonable to think that a popular myth involving a lucky dude who escaped with his family would become widespread.
 
One of my favourite takes on the flood story is how all the organisms that cause sexually-transmitted diseases managed to make it through the year or so that Noah was on the ark. Presumably Noah and kin were at it like rabbits, and not just with their own betrotheds. Why would God let such a promiscuous, sinful family build the ark in the first place? Were the rest of the population even worse?
Once on the ark, though, they would have been to sick to function (let alone think about sex) seeing as how they also had to harbour all the parasitic infections that require man as a host or intermediate host and that do not have any animal reservoirs. It can't have been fun looking after millions of animals while suffering the rigors and delerium of cerebral malaria.
 
Reposted from April, 2005:
Not only must the animals themselves be kept, what about food for them all? Looking at carnivores, lions, for example, eat on average 8 to 9 kg of meat per day, but can eat up to 25 kg (females) or 43 kg (males). Here are some more examples of the food needs of other carnivores:
Bobcat -- 40 lbs/week
Cougar or Leopard -- 100-150 lbs/week
Lion or Tiger -- 200-250 lbs/week
Fox -- 25 lbs/week
Coyote -- 25 lbs/week
Bear -- 100 lbs/week
One animal refuge that keeps 40 large carnivores states that it goes through 10,000 pounds of meat per month, so for every 40 carnivores on the ark, Noah would have needed about 12,500 pound of meat for the trip. If he had 100 carnivores, he needed over 31,000 pounds of meat.

Because refrigeration technology in Noah's time would have been a tad bit inadequte for the job, the best way to keep that much meat fresh would be to keep it "on the hoof," which means they would have had to have literally herds of game animals (plus smaller animals, such as rodents, etc., for the smaller carnivores) just to provide food! So now you've got to have tons of grain to feed not ony the Representative Pairs of herbivores, but to keep the food animals alive as long as they're needed.

Let's not even get into whether Noah took animals by kingdom, phylum, class, order, family, genus, or species. If the anti-evolutionists are correct, then all the species already existed, right? Global species estimates range from 2 million to 100 million species. Ten million is probably nearer the mark. Only 1.4 million species have been named. Of these, approximately 250,000 are plants and 750,000 are insects. We can probably rule out birds and aquatic creatures (or can we?), but that still leaves millions of species of land animals.

What about dinosaurs?

As you can see, the logistics of the whole thing quickly approach the absurd.
 
What about dinosaurs?

In all seriousness, once when I was kid I went to church with a friend of mine. He was a Johova's Witness. We were in a room with a bunch of books and one picture book was the story of the ark, written for a very early age, mostly pictures. In it was a scene where dinosaurs were smashing the ramp to the ark and were bigger than the doors so Noah decides to leave them behind. I swear I saw this. I'm not sure if it was a Johova's Witness thing or what kind of book it was but I vividly remember that picture. This was early 70's, by the way, so I wouldn't know where to start looking for such a book again.
 

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