Nitric Oxide and Body Building

[Camillus]

I came across this at another forum. Although I have no real interest in body building or power lifting it caught my interest.

It's essentially about the use of dietary supplements to increase NO production during and after exercise. The idea is that the increased vasodilation improves muscle power, growth and leaves you feeling "pumped".

I have to say it doesn't look right to me. NO is a really short lived molecule and given that it's produced in response to stimulation I can't see how upping your intake of precursors is going to significantly increase or prolong production.

Here's a puff piece for the stuff. Notice the textbook use of pseudoscientific gobbledegook ("hemodilation" - what's that when it's at home?) and lack of understanding about NO.

This site has what seems like a good debunking of the whole thing but I wondered what others felt? Dietary supplements are not something I'm that familiar with but there's something about this that feels wrong.

 

[pgwenthold]

I came across this at another forum. Although I have no real interest in body building or power lifting it caught my interest.

It's essentially about the use of dietary supplements to increase NO production during and after exercise. The idea is that the increased vasodilation improves muscle power, growth and leaves you feeling "pumped".

I have to say it doesn't look right to me. NO is a really short lived molecule and given that it's produced in response to stimulation I can't see how upping your intake of precursors is going to significantly increase or prolong production.

Works for viagra!

[/b]
Here's a puff piece for the stuff. Notice the textbook use of pseudoscientific gobbledegook ("hemodilation" - what's that when it's at home?) and lack of understanding about NO.

This site has what seems like a good debunking of the whole thing but I wondered what others felt? Dietary supplements are not something I'm that familiar with but there's something about this that feels wrong. [/B]

Nitric oxide is an endothelial relaxation factor that leads to vasodilation, increasing bloodflow. There are a lot of different NO precursors being investigated, including things like nitrosylthiols (RSNO) and diazeniumdiolates. Many physiological effects that were not always so well understood have been recast in light of nitric oxide. For example, it has been proposed that nitroglycerin generates NO in the treatment of angina.

Now, given that there is a lot of legitimate research going on in the area of deliberate, regulated NO generation, I would be surprised if some random dietary supplement is all of a sudden going to be the answer, but the science behind the therapeutic effects of NO is pretty good. Yes, increasing NO production would likely be a good thing. No, dietary supplements are probably not specifically good sources for NO generation.

 

[Bruce]

Nitric oxide is one of those weird molecules that is poorly understood. It's highly toxic in large amounts, but it shows up in small amounts in all sorts of biological processes including humans, plants, and animals. It's not flammable, but moderately reactive. Short-lived? Depends on how you handle it. If kept away from oxygen, it can be isolated, cyrstalized, and stored in an inert atmosphere for several months. Even in air, it doesn't react instantaneously with oxygen or other molecules, thus it's lack of flammability and classification of moderate reactivity.

It can be created by the reaction of bleach and ammonia, you know, that deadly, explosive reaction that realeases chlorine gas and kills unsuspecting home owners? I had to do that reaction in the lab in graduate school. I had already caused two unintended explosions, and I was pretty scared to try this one. I was trying to synthesize (PPh3)3AuNO and needed to make some NO. I did the reaction in a dry-ice acetone bath (-78C) behind a blast shield, in the absence of oxygen,and used very small amounts. The chemicals foamed instantly when they made contact, and the temperature rose to -40C, but luckily no explosion. Unfortunately, I was never able to isolate NO crystals and had to abandon the project. That reaction is very sensitive and unpredictable. I would imagine that NO reactions are about as unpredictable in the human body.

That's my knowledge of nitric oxide. I've read a bit on the biological research, but I definitely don't think we know enough about it to offer as a body building drug. As I said, it's toxic in high amounts, and the general public seems to think that if a little is good, then a lot is better.

 

[El Greco]

See also this. Bottom line: Save your money.

 

[Bruce]

Before any confusion comes up:

NO: Nitric Oxide: non-flammable, shows up in biological processes

N2O: Nitrous Oxide: laughing gas, highly flammable, moderately toxic, used as an oxidant in Flame AA instrumentation

NO2: Nitrogen dioxide: highly toxic, brown gas, responsible for acid rain, very bad news.


I noticed in El Greco's link that one of the forum responders kept saying NO2. Big difference from NO.

 

[El Greco]

I noticed in El Greco's link that one of the forum responders kept saying NO2. Big difference from NO.

Well, he was not talking about NO₂, he was talking about NO 2 which is the -admittedly confusing- brand name of a NO supplement

 

[Bruce]

Gagh!! I have to apologize!

I was laying awake last night, wondering how I could have crystalized a gas, then realized that I wasn't trying to make NO. I was trying to make hydroxyl amine, NH2OH. Nitric oxide was one of the other reaction routes. The idea was to make (PPh3)3AuNOH, then deprotonate to make (PPh3)3AuNO. I feel so embarrassed. Curse my decaying gray matter!

 

[pgwenthold]

Nitric oxide is one of those weird molecules that is poorly understood. It's highly toxic in large amounts, but it shows up in small amounts in all sorts of biological processes including humans, plants, and animals. It's not flammable, but moderately reactive. Short-lived? Depends on how you handle it. If kept away from oxygen, it can be isolated, cyrstalized, and stored in an inert atmosphere for several months. Even in air, it doesn't react instantaneously with oxygen or other molecules, thus it's lack of flammability and classification of moderate reactivity.

Outside of oxygen, NO isn't all that reactive with anything. Although it is a free radical, it is an extremely poor oxidizing agent (unlike NO2) and it is not a great hydrogen scavenger (HNO isn't all that great). It reacts nicely with other free radicals (e.g. the aforementioned O2), and it can find things to do in a rich physiological environment (but then, so can pretty much anything).

It can be created by the reaction of bleach and ammonia, you know, that deadly, explosive reaction that realeases chlorine gas and kills unsuspecting home owners? I had to do that reaction in the lab in graduate school. I had already caused two unintended explosions, and I was pretty scared to try this one. I was trying to synthesize (PPh3)3AuNO and needed to make some NO.

I know you have corrected yourself, but when I read this, I was thinking, "Why don't you just buy it?" Commercially available gas from Linde Gases, at least. That's the supplier we buy it from.

That's my knowledge of nitric oxide. I've read a bit on the biological research, but I definitely don't think we know enough about it to offer as a body building drug. As I said, it's toxic in high amounts, and the general public seems to think that if a little is good, then a lot is better.

I think there is reason to think it might help. The real problem is that the supposed products aren't the way to go about it.

 

[TeaBag420]

Gagh!! I have to apologize!

I was laying awake last night, wondering how I could have crystalized a gas, then realized that I wasn't trying to make NO. I was trying to make hydroxyl amine, NH2OH. Nitric oxide was one of the other reaction routes. The idea was to make (PPh3)3AuNOH, then deprotonate to make (PPh3)3AuNO. I feel so embarrassed. Curse my decaying gray matter!

The only thing you have to apologize for is your failure.

A geek story where you fail is kind of faggy.