New Zealand Cuts Diplomatic Ties with Israel

Mr Manifesto · Jul 15, 2004

New Zealand has suspended some diplomatic ties with Israel after two Israeli men were jailed for passport fraud.

New Zealand Prime Minister Helen Clark says she wants an explanation and apology.

She also says there are strong reasons to believe the men were acting on behalf of Israel's intelligence services.

Uriel Zoshe Kelman and Eli Cara last month pleaded guilty to charges which included attempting to obtain a New Zealand passport and participating in an organised crime group to obtain a false passport.

They were caught in a police sting after a tip-off from a suspicious Customs officer.

Caught out by a Kiwi Customs officer. Move over, James Bond!

I hate to have to add this, but I can hear Skeptic lunging for his keyboard already: This isn't an anti-Israeli thread, I would have said the same for any country that allowed its spies to get caught in an idiotic manner by a friendly country. Why jeopordise diplomatic ties by doing something stupid like this?

Maybe New Zealand is a silent partner in the Axis of Evil. They've been attacked by the French before, y'know...

Grammatron · Jul 15, 2004

Mr Manifesto said:
NZ jails Israeli 'spies'

Caught out by a Kiwi Customs officer. Move over, James Bond!

I hate to have to add this, but I can hear Skeptic lunging for his keyboard already: This isn't an anti-Israeli thread, I would have said the same for any country that allowed its spies to get caught in an idiotic manner by a friendly country. Why jeopordise diplomatic ties by doing something stupid like this?

Maybe New Zealand is a silent partner in the Axis of Evil. They've been attacked by the French before, y'know...

Talk about an over reaction.

Tmy · Jul 15, 2004

THe PM of New Zeland later stated that the spies were after his ring of power. "MY PRECIOUS, MY PRECIOUS!!".

Mr Manifesto · Jul 15, 2004

Re: Re: New Zealand Cuts Diplomatic Ties with Israel

Grammatron said:
Talk about an over reaction.

If an ASIO agent was caught in Washington trying to forge an American passport without consulting the US authorities in any way, shape, or form, what would be an acceptable reaction to you?

Grammatron · Jul 15, 2004

Re: Re: Re: New Zealand Cuts Diplomatic Ties with Israel

Mr Manifesto said:
If an ASIO agent was caught in Washington trying to forge an American passport without consulting the US authorities in any way, shape, or form, what would be an acceptable reaction to you?

Aside from invading them?

I don't know, but cutting diplomatic ties all together seems rather childish. I imagine these situations happen quite a bit in the world and somehow they don't end up on the front page.

banquetbear · Jul 16, 2004

Re: Re: Re: Re: New Zealand Cuts Diplomatic Ties with Israel

Grammatron said:
Aside from invading them?

I don't know, but cutting diplomatic ties all together seems rather childish. I imagine these situations happen quite a bit in the world and somehow they don't end up on the front page.

...the suspected agents were arrested months ago. "If" these situations happened all the time, I would suspect that the Israeli government would have contacted the New Zealand government when they were arrested-and arranged to broker a deal at the time. That didn't happen. Last time we arrested foreign agents they were in the country blowing up boats and murdering innocent people-which then resulted in an absurd load of sanctions on our country which were only ended when we gave said terrorists back to their country-suffice to say, we are just a little bit TOUCHY on the issue of foreign agents working in our country

...

Zep · Jul 16, 2004

Tmy said:
THe PM of New Zeland later stated that the spies were after his ring of power. "MY PRECIOUS, MY PRECIOUS!!".

HER. Her ring of power. Helen Clark is the PM of the shakey isles.

http://www.primeminister.govt.nz/

Mr Manifesto · Jul 16, 2004

What's the bet they were there to spy on the New Zealand Air Force?

WildCat · Jul 16, 2004

Mr Manifesto said:
What's the bet they were there to spy on the New Zealand Air Force?

The big plane or the little one?

Dorian Gray · Jul 16, 2004

don't know, but cutting diplomatic ties all together seems rather childish.

But then again, that's what happened when spies were caught in Civilization II.

Kerberos · Jul 16, 2004

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: New Zealand Cuts Diplomatic Ties with Israel

banquetbear said:
...the suspected agents were arrested months ago. "If" these situations happened all the time, I would suspect that the Israeli government would have contacted the New Zealand government when they were arrested-and arranged to broker a deal at the time. That didn't happen. Last time we arrested foreign agents they were in the country blowing up boats and murdering innocent people-which then resulted in an absurd load of sanctions on our country which were only ended when we gave said terrorists back to their country-suffice to say, we are just a little bit TOUCHY on the issue of foreign agents working in our country ...

Which country was that, when was it and why did it result in sactions?

a_unique_person · Jul 16, 2004

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: New Zealand Cuts Diplomatic Ties with Israel

Kerberos said:
Which country was that, when was it and why did it result in sactions?

It was France, when it sank the Rainbow Warrior, a Greenpeace protest ship.

banquetbear · Jul 16, 2004

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Kerberos said:
Which country was that, when was it and why did it result in sactions?

...France, 1985, and because they could...

http://www.kauricoast.co.nz/Feature.cfm?WPID=70

Sanctions

27.11.85. Just days after the sentences are handed down, the first calls come from within France for sanctions against New Zealand products if the two agents are not sent home.

30.1.86. Talks between the French and New Zealand Governments for compensation for the bombing reach a stalemate as the French Government presses for the return of the agents.

1.2.86. The masts from the Rainbow Warrior are erected at the Dargaville Maritime Museum.

21.2.86. France puts a partial ban on New Zealands $8.5 million lambs brains exports. Exporters, complain of difficulties in having their meat and vegetable products accepted in New Caledonia.

3.3.86. French retaliation escalates, a wide variety of products are now caught in the trade ban - fish, canned kiwifruit, urea and lamb.

1.4.86. Jaques Chirac, head of a right wing Gaullist party and a strong critic of New Zealand, becomes Prime Minister of France.

...yes, they snuck into our country-blew up a boat in our waters, killed a man, then applied trade sanctions on us until we released them their agents. What a shame the "War on Terror" wasn't around back then eh?

The Fool · Jul 16, 2004

Mossad was probably tipped off that they had sheep of mass destruction.

Kerberos · Jul 16, 2004

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: New Zealand Cuts Diplomatic Ties with Israel

banquetbear said:
...France, 1985, and because they could...

http://www.kauricoast.co.nz/Feature.cfm?WPID=70

...yes, they snuck into our country-blew up a boat in our waters, killed a man, then applied trade sanctions on us until we released them their agents.

Sounds like France.

What a shame the "War on Terror" wasn't around back then eh?

Click to expand...

You've got it all wrong, It's only terrorism if it's done by Muslims.

Leif Roar · Jul 16, 2004

Re: Re: Re: Re: New Zealand Cuts Diplomatic Ties with Israel

Grammatron said:
Aside from invading them?

I don't know, but cutting diplomatic ties all together seems rather childish. I imagine these situations happen quite a bit in the world and somehow they don't end up on the front page.

That's not what New Zealand in doing, though. From

From BBC News
In a statement to the Auckland court trying the men, Ms Clark said she would suspend government visits to Israel, Israeli officials would need visas to enter New Zealand and foreign ministry contacts would be suspended.

Her government is also planning to refuse any request for Israel's President, Moshe Katsav, to visit next month when he is due in Australia and delay its approval for the appointment of a new Israeli ambassador to New Zealand.

So they're not "cutting diplomatic ties alltogether", but rather just curbing them for a while.

Flo · Jul 16, 2004

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: New Zealand Cuts Diplomatic Ties with Israel

banquetbear said:
...France, 1985, and because they could...

France puts a partial ban on New Zealands $8.5 million lambs brains exports.

...yes, they snuck into our country-blew up a boat in our waters, killed a man, then applied trade sanctions on us until we released them their agents. What a shame the "War on Terror" wasn't around back then eh?

You've got it all wrong. All of this was in order to get a pretext for banning the import of sheep brains, so that our politicians would stop feeling outclassed !

Mike B. · Jul 16, 2004

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Kerberos said:
You've got it all wrong, It's only terrorism if it's done by Muslims.

Since there are all kinds of terrorists all over the world with all kinds of different causes, who thinks this?

Mr Manifesto · Jul 16, 2004

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Mike B. said:
Since there are all kinds of terrorists all over the world with all kinds of different causes, who thinks this?

Tony. Skeptic.

(Ah, c'mon, Tony, I'm only funnin' ya!

You're a tool, Skeptic.)

zenith-nadir · Jul 16, 2004

WildCat said:
The big plane or the little one?

Funny...

The Fool said:
Mossad was probably tipped off that they had sheep of mass destruction.

Funny too...

New Zealand Cuts Diplomatic Ties with Israel

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