New `study' on vet homeopathy

Asolepius

Graduate Poster
Asolepius
Joined
Jul 5, 2004
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I have just received a news release from the Faculty of Homeopathy, reporting on a study published in its house journal. I haven't seen the full text of the paper yet, but it is reported to be a survey of owner satisfaction with treatment, involving 767 animals over 6 months. It is claimed to be a pilot for a future controlled study. The citation is:

Mathie RT, Hansen L, Elliott MF, Hoare J. Outcomes from homeopathic prescribing in general practice: a prospective, research-targeted, pilot study. Homeopathy 2007; 96: 27-34

PM be if you want the news release (scanned). If anyone can get the full text of the paper that would be great.
 
There was some reference in the Bristol Evening Post this Saturday about some kind of new study. It was in a puff piece about how wonderful vetinary homoeopathy is.

It's not available online unfortunately
 
That will be the planned Bristol Uni study by Mathie et al. There was a news release about it on the uni site but I can't find it now.
 
Surely even if every owner is 100% satisfied then the most that this could prove is that, as a con trick, homeopathy is highly effective. It says little about the effectiveness of the medicine.
 
Belay that order! I just received the full text. I'll post a critique shortly.
 
Abstract:

Background and aims
Targeted research development in veterinary homeopathy is properly informed by the systematic collection and analysis of relevant clinical data obtained by its practitioners. We organised a pilot data collection study, in which 8 Faculty of Homeopathy veterinarians collected practice-based clinical and outcomes data over a 6-month period.

Methods
A specifically designed Excel spreadsheet enabled recording of consecutive clinical appointments under the following headings: date; identity of patient and owner (anonymised); age, sex and species of patient; medical condition/complaint treated; whether confirmed diagnosis, chronic or acute, new or follow-up case; owner-assessed outcome (7-point Likert scale: −3 to +3) compared with first appointment; homeopathic medicine/s prescribed; other medication/s for the condition/complaint. Spreadsheets were submitted monthly by e-mail to the project organisers for data checking, synthesis and analysis.

Results
Practitioners submitted data regularly and punctually, and most data cells were completed. 767 individual patients were treated (547 dogs, 155 cats, 50 horses, 5 rabbits, 4 guinea-pigs, 2 birds, 2 goats, 1 cow, and 1 tortoise). Outcome from two or more homeopathic appointments per patient condition was obtained in 539 cases (79.8% showing improvement, 6.1% deterioration, 11.7% no change; outcome not recorded in 2.4% of follow-ups). Strongly positive outcomes (scores of +2 or +3) were achieved in: arthritis and epilepsy in dogs and, in smaller numbers, in atopic dermatitis, gingivitis and hyperthyroidism in cats.

Conclusions
Systematic recording of data by veterinarians in clinical practice is feasible and capable of informing future research in veterinary homeopathy. A refined version of the spreadsheet can be used in larger-scale research-targeted veterinary data collection.
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I hear a recent study proves giving heroin to addicts cures them of their addiction. Apparantly 100% of them were satisfied by the treatment.
 
Asolepius said:
That will be the planned Bristol Uni study by Mathie et al. There was a news release about it on the uni site but I can't find it now.
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That's the fella. Barely a week goes by without the Evening Post promoting some form of woo. Must be something to do with the fact thay so many ley lines cross under the Evening Post building :rolleyes:



http://www.bris.ac.uk/news/2006/1033.html
 
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All TOO predictable. Writing up a satisfaction survey of like-minded kooks as "science".

Hand up who wants pizza! Great! EVERYONE does! Unanimous decision!

"Background and aims
Targeted research development in domestic comestibles is properly informed by the systematic collection and analysis of relevant clinical data obtained by its practitioners. We organised a pilot data collection study, in which 8 siblings and related family members collected practice-based clinical and outcomes data over a short period..."*

See how easy it is? :rolleyes:

*Alterations highlighted.
 
owner-assessed outcome
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So they're asking totally unqualified people if they think their tortoise looks happier than it did before. At least they're consistent with their standard of research.
 
Katana said:
Abstract:
Click to expand...

"Conclusions
Systematic recording of data by veterinarians in clinical practice is feasible and capable of informing future research in veterinary homeopathy. A refined version of the spreadsheet can be used in larger-scale research-targeted veterinary data collection. "

So, the study concluded that veterinarians are able to record data systematically? And that recording data can be helpful in future research? Wow, those are some revolutionary conclusions.
 
crackers said:
"Conclusions
Systematic recording of data by veterinarians in clinical practice is feasible and capable of informing future research in veterinary homeopathy. A refined version of the spreadsheet can be used in larger-scale research-targeted veterinary data collection. "

So, the study concluded that veterinarians are able to record data systematically? And that recording data can be helpful in future research? Wow, those are some revolutionary conclusions.
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Hold yer horses, it only says feasible, not that they actually can record the data. But on the whole it´s hard to disagree with the conclusions.

Oh no - this just in from the Bristol Evening Post - Real Scientist, with PhD and Everything, Agrees with Pro-Homeopathy Study Conclusions!!!!!

ETA: oh, and I like the "specially designed" spreadsheet bit. I tried to prove the existence of Bigfoot by entering data into Excel, but I just used the spreadsheet I use to track my expenses, and it ended up I owed him 2 pound 75p.
 
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geoman said:
ETA: oh, and I like the "specially designed" spreadsheet bit. I tried to prove the existence of Bigfoot by entering data into Excel, but I just used the spreadsheet I use to track my expenses, and it ended up I owed him 2 pound 75p.
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Thanks for making me snort with laughter after a crappy day! :D
 
I notice they didn't have any ferrets in the study. I think ferrets are more skeptical than most pets. :ferret:
 
crackers said:
"Conclusions
Systematic recording of data by veterinarians in clinical practice is feasible and capable of informing future research in veterinary homeopathy. A refined version of the spreadsheet can be used in larger-scale research-targeted veterinary data collection. "

So, the study concluded that veterinarians are able to record data systematically? And that recording data can be helpful in future research? Wow, those are some revolutionary conclusions.
Click to expand...
Yes but they used a spreadsheet. Don't forget that.
 
Results
Practitioners submitted data regularly and punctually, and most data cells were completed. 767 individual patients were treated (547 dogs, 155 cats, 50 horses, 5 rabbits, 4 guinea-pigs, 2 birds, 2 goats, 1 cow, and 1 tortoise). Outcome from two or more homeopathic appointments per patient condition was obtained in 539 cases (79.8% showing improvement, 6.1% deterioration, 11.7% no change; outcome not recorded in 2.4% of follow-ups). Strongly positive outcomes (scores of +2 or +3) were achieved in: arthritis and epilepsy in dogs and, in smaller numbers, in atopic dermatitis, gingivitis and hyperthyroidism in cats.
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No sign of a control group. One group should have been treated with placebo and the other should have been treated with uh....placebo.
 
KingMerv00 said:
No sign of a control group. One group should have been treated with placebo and the other should have been treated with uh....placebo.
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Issues with this particular study aside, not being a vet, I wonder how the placebo effect would work on animals. In the realm of veterinary research, is the double-blind RCT the gold standard? Does it need to be? One wouldn't think that animals would have expectations about the benefit of a particular treatment, so are they subject to a placebo effect?

I ask this because I have pondered it before when I hear about alternative medicine helping animals with a variety of ailments. For something that many of us would attribute to a placebo effect if seen in humans, I feel more inclined to suspect a true benefit if seen in animals even without a placebo group because they don't know that they're supposed to be helped.

Thoughts?
 
Katana said:
Issues with this particular study aside, not being a vet, I wonder how the placebo effect would work on animals. In the realm of veterinary research, is the double-blind RCT the gold standard? Does it need to be? One wouldn't think that animals would have expectations about the benefit of a particular treatment, so are they subject to a placebo effect?

I ask this because I have pondered it before when I hear about alternative medicine helping animals with a variety of ailments. For something that many of us would attribute to a placebo effect if seen in humans, I feel more inclined to suspect a true benefit if seen in animals even without a placebo group because they don't know that they're supposed to be helped.

Thoughts?
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This is an ancient canard (but they didn't study any ducks). Note that here they didn't do any objective tests of any kind. They didn't even examine the patients, they just asked the owners. It's the owners who are subject to placebo effect. Look at this thread. Despite the obvious fact that the owner was killing her dog with homeopathy, she was delighted with it. This happens with human disease as well. Some people would rather go to an early grave than admit that their woo healer is a fraud.
 
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