pgwenthold said:
To what extent will men do it because society allows them to do it?
So you believe that women are just as happy working 100 hours a week as men are, except that they feel outside pressure to be at home?
I dont believe that. Yes, there is societal pressure, and YES women prefer to stay home more and raise kids. Those are not mutually exclusive.
And is it really that women are dissatisfied, or that they really have little choice in the matter? Ultimately, at least one has to be the caregiver. However, if neither wants to do it, then by societal default, it almost always falls back to the responsibility of the woman.
Women always have a choice. They are free to hire a babysitter (like a single man would) or they are free to work out an arrangement iwth their mate/husband so that he stays at home.
I dont buy the "society dictates ____" argument. If you asked housewives why they chose to stay home, they wont say "because society told me I had to" they say "because I wanted to stay at home and take care of kids"
Now, does societal influence have some relationship there? Absolutely. But ultimately the choice lies with the individual, not soceity. There are no government imposed legal penalties against women staying home.
As I always see these things as reflections of society, more than anything else.
So what? If women dont like what society says, then they can do whatever they want. They can hire somebody else to take care of the kids if they dont like what society says.
To what extent does society allow women to do the things they need to do in order to be successful in a specific job?
The same as men. If women worked the same # of hours as men and put in the same time/work committment, then the salary/career discrepancy vanishes.
Especially in positions like those addressed in this survey, which are pretty much based on how much you accomplish (a guy once told me, in terms of tenure, "You have 2000 days to establish yourself as a legitimate scientist. Every day you let slip by cuts your chance by 1/2000").
That sounds fine to me. Academic funding is competitive. Everybody has to compete and your statement about 1 in 2000 days applies equally to men AND women.
Now, most places I know do allow for "family leave" time, extending the tenure clock for women who have babies, but they also put a limit on it.
So what? You should not receive equal pay/benefits for unequal work. If you are at home taking care of the kids, then you made a choice and cant expect to be on equal footing at work anymore. That applies to men AND women. If a man takes off for a vacation or to stay at home, he's going to be punished for it just as much as the woman.
Other than that, any thoughts that they would lower their productivity standards for granting tenure due to family issues are silly. Basically, kids or no kids, you are expected to accomplish a certain amount in order to get tenure. If your other responsibilities, be it home or even social life, prevent you from achieving those accomplishments, then you will be out and they will find someone who can get it done.
Thats the way it SHOULD BE! In a world of competition for limited resources, we should reward those who show strong work production over those who do not.
The one thing I really like about my job is that I am ultimately evaluated on the quality of my work and what I do, not how much time I spend doing it or how much effort I put in.
Thats the way things are across the board. If a woman can work part time and crank out 3 first author publications a year in respected journals, she's going to be kept over the man who works full time and cant produce that kind of output.
Of course, the women are complaining that they cant get equal porductivity, because they cant work the same hours, becuase they WANT to take care of their kids. This isnt "your way, right away" Burger King. If you dont want to contribute maximum productivity, then you are going to take a career hit and its your own fault and your own choice.
The problem is that our society does not pressure anyone to go to ball games or surf the web, but societal gender roles do lead to a disproportionate number of women who must spend too much time at home.
So your recommendation is that we should "change society" huh? Good luck with that.
Society influence is certainly a factor, but ULTIMATELY this is about personal choice and compromise.
Society influence also creates killers amongst us, but when they kill people we dont just let them off the hook. We go ahead and lock them up anyways.
The same logic applies here. Despite the fact that society may view women differently than men, ULTIMATELY its their decision and their responsibility.
