Nantucket Sound wind generator

[varwoche]

Yesterday the Seattle Times had an article about a proposed wind generation facilility in Nantucket Sound, including an interesting photo I wish I could share. (More on the photo is a sec.)

For some background, here's a (biased) site that opposes the project.

The gist of the newspaper article is an analysis of why Kerry has yet to endorse it, though he favors wind energy. (The Kerry family has a house there.)

I'm sympathetic to all viewpoints. Kerry is waiting for an environmental impact report, which seems reasonable. The NIMBY locals claim "this is our Grand Canyon; this is our Yosemite" which too I can understand. As well, I strongly favor alternate energy.

Back to the photo -- it shows a Nantucket shoreline (Craigville Beach) that is situated 6 miles or so from the proposed project. Each and every property line has a man-made jetty (perpendicular to the shoreline), presumably to reduce beach erosion.

My point: The property owners who oppose the project are rank hypocrites. They are willing to screw with the shoreline ecosystem, yet opposed to the wind generator due to the ecosystem. (It's annoying that this blatant hypocrisy was overlooked in the article.)

 

[Tmy]

I live in mass. The best part is the anti-wind commericals on the radio. THey make it seem like they'd be building an oil refinery in the sound.

Its a little annoying when summer folks like Walter Cronkite are leading the anti-wind charge.

the Cape and Islands has some of the highest utility rates in the country. Im sure that doesnt bother Walt.

THeres a highschool in Hull Mass. thay has one of these windmills on its campus. THey look kinda cool if you ask me.

 

[BPSCG]

My point: The property owners who oppose the project are rank hypocrites. They are willing to screw with the shoreline ecosystem, yet opposed to the wind generator due to the ecosystem. (It's annoying that this blatant hypocrisy was overlooked in the article.)

Some questions:

For whom are these windmills supposed to be providing energy? If it's just for Massachusetts, thenI guess it's pretty much up to the voters there to let it go through or shoot it down.

And of course, they'll have to be the ones who live with the consequences of their decision, either way.

One of those consequences is, I assume, continued high electrical rates. Another consequence could be power shortages like California had the last couple of years. Now California has a steadily growing population, and Massachusetts, I believe, does not. But what's Massachusetts's power consumption been like the last ten or twenty years? Slowly rising? Steadily rising? Quickly rising? I would think it would make a difference in what they do.

Anyone have any alternative plans? I assume those same people who even oppose windmills would oppose oil-fired or coal-fired plants, and would choke on their own bile if you even hinted at nuclear.

A quick look at the link suggests to me the primary concern of the opponents is that it would spoil the view, not that it would be some sort of ecological disaster. Am I correct in that conclusion?

 

[tedly]

Strange, but there was just a report on the local radio about a program in Saskatchewan to encourage the use of energy efficient household appliances. The govt will forgo the provincial sales tax on the purchase. That's a 7% reduction in price, whick doesn't seem like much of an incentive to me, but $600,000 of rebate has been not collected. That number of appliances, according to the Energuide numbers on the equipment adds up to the output of a $1M wind turbine. (They're trying to put up scads of them here. Of course we are people who are nostalgic about the skyline of the old wooden grain elevators so we probably have a different esthetic sense.) Now the efficient appliances will continue to provide a benefit over their lifetime, and they won't have the maintenance costs associated with the turbine, and we still get a Kyoto contribution.
Dr Pangloss where are you and Pollyanna when I need you.

 

[varwoche]

Re: Re: Nantucket Sound wind generator

A quick look at the link suggests to me the primary concern of the opponents is that it would spoil the view, not that it would be some sort of ecological disaster. Am I correct in that conclusion?

No doubt. But they are leaving no stone unturned. I saw a lot of ecosystem ranting, though I don't recall if it was on the site I linked to.

 

[AtheistArchon]

- A 'wind generation facility'. Wouldn't this be several dozen very large windmills, propelled by fossil fuels, thus generating a brisk breeze?

 

[ManfredVonRichthoffen]

I followed the link to a pic. Didn't think they looked that bad. I thought it added something interesting to the normally plain straight line of the ocian horizon.

The problem I've always had with wind power wasn't the look, but the noise. At the distance that they have been built on land from housing complexes, they produce a constant buzz aparently as loud as a running refrigerator. That is far worse in my opinion than the breaking of the horizon line off the ocean.

 

[fishbob]

For some background, here's a (biased) site that opposes the project.

Take a close look at the background image behind the text on the web site. The windmill is vertically distorted, a lot.

 

[ManfredVonRichthoffen]

I'd hope they'd have boat tours. I'd go. Those look pretty cool.

 

[BPSCG]

The problem I've always had with wind power wasn't the look, but the noise. At the distance that they have been built on land from housing complexes, they produce a constant buzz aparently as loud as a running refrigerator. That is far worse in my opinion than the breaking of the horizon line off the ocean.

Wind turbines five miles away would be louder than the surf five feet away?

 

[Drooper]

My point: The property owners who oppose the project are rank hypocrites. They are willing to screw with the shoreline ecosystem,

Do you have evidence to suggest that their jetties have "screwed with the shorelane ecosystem"?

Or is this a class thing??

 

[Drooper]

I followed the link to a pic. Didn't think they looked that bad. I thought it added something interesting to the normally plain straight line of the ocian horizon.

The problem I've always had with wind power wasn't the look, but the noise. At the distance that they have been built on land from housing complexes, they produce a constant buzz aparently as loud as a running refrigerator. That is far worse in my opinion than the breaking of the horizon line off the ocean.

I have seen research that suggests that the impact on bird life is much greater than previously thought. David Bellamy (a well known British botanist and environmentalist) is an opponent of windfarms for this reason.

 

[Drooper]

Take a close look at the background image behind the text on the web site. The windmill is vertically distorted, a lot.

By about 40% by my calculations.

That is assuming that the image on the official project site:

Nantucket Sound Windfarm

hasn't been squashed vertically

 

[ManfredVonRichthoffen]

Wind turbines five miles away would be louder than the surf five feet away?

Sorry, wasn't very clear. That is the reason I don't think that the off shore turbines are that bad. You wouldn't be able to hear them.

 

[ManfredVonRichthoffen]

I have seen research that suggests that the impact on bird life is much greater than previously thought. David Bellamy (a well known British botanist and environmentalist) is an opponent of windfarms for this reason.

Ask them what the impact was on the bird life when the oil fields of kuwait burned.

 

[Drooper]

Ask them what the impact was on the bird life when the oil fields of kuwait burned.

I don't understand the relevance of that. It looks like a straw man, is smells like a straw man...

 

[varwoche]

Re: Re: Nantucket Sound wind generator

Do you have evidence to suggest that their jetties have "screwed with the shorelane ecosystem"?

Or is this a class thing??

If only I could convey to you what a presumptious buffoon you are without coming across as a poser, as you are.

As to the effect of of docs, jetties, etc -- do your own research; I've done mine; I was not intending to debate jetties so you're on your own.

 

[Tmy]

Word is that the new windmills are much quiter. The Hull windmill is on the Highschool grounds. How noisy could it be if they put it next to a school??

 

[varwoche]

Re: Re: Nantucket Sound wind generator

Do you have evidence to suggest that their jetties have "screwed with the shorelane ecosystem"?

Or is this a class thing??

One more minor preemptive point: My use of the words "screw with" was entirely deliberate. I did not say "screw up". That manmade structures like these alter (screw with) the ecosystem is an absolute given.

As to whether they screw up the ecosystem, this too may be true, however I'm not armed with enough facts to make such a claim.

One has to be very careful with choice of words around super skeptics.

 

[fishbob]

The NIMBY locals claim "this is our Grand Canyon; this is our Yosemite" which too I can understand. As well, I strongly favor alternate energy.

NIMBYs give me a pain. I might agree with their position more is they were practicing some kind of minimal impact lifestyle in their "Grand Canyon".

The people with nice views probably have big houses with lots of big windows facing the ocean. Big windows lose lots of energy compared to exterior insulated walls. So these people likely use more energy than people that live elsewhere, but they don't want to look at where the energy is produced.

Let other people look at smoke stacks, and oil fields, and power lines. NIMBY's that want their cake and to eat it too, suck.