Mystic Atheist?

[PopeTom]

To sum up a conversation I have had recently.

Person: They don't have to meet all interests but I obviously have nothing in common with, say, a non mystical atheist who enjoys watching football.

Me: Is there such a thing as a 'mystical atheist'?

Person: I've met quite a few atheists who get involved with magick so yes, they exist.

So, ummm... I'm having trouble processing the person's last sentence.
So I want to ask, are you, or anyone you know, an atheist who practices magic (magick?)?

Or is there a logical inconsistency in being an atheist who practices magic that doesn't take the form of the kind of magic practiced by David Copperfield and other stage magicians?

 

[IllegalArgument]

An athiest is an answer to a specific question. Do you think god(s) exists?

You can still believe is a great many "magical" thing that don't involve god(s).

Some forms of Buddhism have no concept of god(s) but they believe in reincarnation.

I think you are confusing atheism with naturalism, they overlap but do encompass each other.

 

[Tricky]

To sum up a conversation I have had recently.

So, ummm... I'm having trouble processing the person's last sentence.
So I want to ask, are you, or anyone you know, an atheist who practices magic (magick?)?

Or is there a logical inconsistency in being an atheist who practices magic that doesn't take the form of the kind of magic practiced by David Copperfield and other stage magicians?

I've known some Pagans who practice "magick" (that's what Pagans call it to differentiate it from stage magic or conjuring) but confess that they don't really believe it. It's more of a friendly ritual thing. So are they really mystical? Some of them are pretty wooish about crystals and crap. But my feeling is that to be an atheist, you have to call yourself an atheist. Simply "not really believing" isn't enough.

 

[PopeTom]

I've known some Pagans who practice "magick" (that's what Pagans call it to differentiate it from stage magic or conjuring) but confess that they don't really believe it. It's more of a friendly ritual thing. So are they really mystical? Some of them are pretty wooish about crystals and crap. But my feeling is that to be an atheist, you have to call yourself an atheist. Simply "not really believing" isn't enough.

I think that's where some of my not quite getting it comes from.

I currently have the impression that most magick ritual isn't really all that different from praying. Basically going through some motions to ask favor from, or give thanks to, some higher being/entity/concept.

I'm not seeing there being much difference in directing those rituals towards 'Mother Earth' or the the Universe as a whole then direction them towards any of the gods that have been worshiped throughout human history.

 

[Dancing David]

To sum up a conversation I have had recently.

So, ummm... I'm having trouble processing the person's last sentence.
So I want to ask, are you, or anyone you know, an atheist who practices magic (magick?)?

Or is there a logical inconsistency in being an atheist who practices magic that doesn't take the form of the kind of magic practiced by David Copperfield and other stage magicians?

That would be ceremonial magic and if it has a k on the end that means of the Crowley variety.

Here is the deal you can use the techniques or visualization, recitation, invokation, evokation, various forms of communion, all without belief. You can rationalize as just being a way of communicating with the non-rational parts of your mind. The effects are there wether or not there is the component of belief. The biggest problem with believers is that they don't follow the proper protocol.
When you create the sacred space be it the circle or what have you, you are saying "this is the space where I communicate with the non-rational parts of my mind", the problem is that when they close the circle they forget to return to the rational 'real' world. So instead they allow the influence of thier non-rational mind when they are not in the sacred space, it is like playing with electricty without insulation.

It bothers many pagans and witches if you tell them that you practice but you don't believe.

 

[Orangutan]

Sounds like he is confusing people who don't believe in a Christian God with atheists, Thats all. Ask him if he thinks Wiccans are atheists.

 

[Dancing David]

I think that's where some of my not quite getting it comes from.

I currently have the impression that most magick ritual isn't really all that different from praying. Basically going through some motions to ask favor from, or give thanks to, some higher being/entity/concept.

I'm not seeing there being much difference in directing those rituals towards 'Mother Earth' or the the Universe as a whole then direction them towards any of the gods that have been worshiped throughout human history.

Ah but you can use the tools without the believe, we all believe in irrational things all the time, politics and morals for example. The point is that when you enter the sacred space you allow yourself to communicate with the irrational intuitive side of yourself. So if it makes it easier to understand it is as though you believe in that space. So say i preform an invokation of a diety, I can either say that i am only believing while I am in the sacred space or I can say that I am just trying to communicate with some irrational interior potion of myself.

So if i invoke the earth mother, I am just opening myself to something in myself, in thoughts, acts and words.

 

[slingblade]

Cernunnos, the Horned God, and the 1000 Faces of the Goddess.

Nah. No atheists there.

 

[Chimera]

I recently met an atheist who later told me she believes in astrology. Maybe some atheists didn't come to their religious beliefs through critical thinking, or maybe they just haven't gotten around to using critical thinking in other belief systems.

 

[thomps1d]

I recently met an atheist who later told me she believes in astrology.

That's more common than you might think. Remember, just because a person is an atheist, that doesn't mean that they're a skeptic. I've known an atheist who believed not only in astrology, but that aliens built the pyramids, that the government is a corrupt entity covering up a steady stream of alien abductions, and that vaccinations cause autism.

All of which is complete and utter BS, of course, but that doesn't change the fact that he felt it was believable.

 

[Meri]

My younger brother is an atheist (a fact I only learned recently, since he's surprisingly careful in hiding it from our parents), and he believes in things like the idea that ancient cultures had some kind of special knowledge because, he says, otherwise how could they build things that can survive earthquakes. He also claims to believe in a kind of collective consciousness.

And I've been an atheist since I was 15, and I believed in magic in high school. I sort of believed in wicca, but without any gods. It wore off when I went to college, though, and I became a skeptic pretty quickly, once I heard about it.