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Muslims Self-Criticism

zenith-nadir

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Z
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Full text: Siege Prompts Self-Criticism in Arab Media - Sat, Sep 04, 2004
CAIRO, Egypt - Associated Press - Muslims worldwide are the main perpetrators of terrorism, a humiliating and painful truth that must be acknowledged, a prominent Arab writer and television executive wrote Saturday, as Middle East media and officials expressed horror at the bloody rebel siege of a Russian school.

Holy warriors" from the Middle East long have supported fellow Muslims fighting in Chechnya, and Russian officials said nine or 10 Arabs were among militants killed.

"Our terrorist sons are an end-product of our corrupted culture," Abdulrahman al-Rashed, general manager of Al-Arabiya television wrote in his daily column published in the pan-Arab Asharq Al-Awsat newspaper. It ran under the headline, "The Painful Truth: All the World Terrorists are Muslims!"

"Most perpetrators of suicide operations in buses, schools and residential buildings around the world for the past 10 years have been Muslims," he wrote. Muslims will be unable to cleanse their image unless "we admit the scandalous facts," rather than offer condemnations or justifications.

Ahmed Bahgat, an Egyptian Islamist, wrote in his column in Egypt's leading pro-government newspaper, Al-Ahram, that hostage-takers in Russia as well as in Iraq are only harming Islam.

"If all the enemies of Islam united together and decided to harm it ... they wouldn't have ruined and harmed its image as much as the sons of Islam have done by their stupidity, miscalculations, and misunderstanding of the nature of this age," Bahgat wrote.
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Finally, some muslims have THE BALLS to admit the truth and say it in print in Arab newspapers. Terrorist sons are an end-product of a corrupted culture and Muslims worldwide are the main perpetrators of terrorism and Islam is being harmed by it. I hope a turning point will be reached in my lifetime where the word muslim does not bring up thoughts of 9-11, bus bombs and beheadings.
 
I predict that he will be dead within a week as a traitor to islam from a car bomb within the week.

I mean a muslim calling those guys dying for alah killing the infidel
terrorist HOW DARE HE!
 
There is a group of muslim schlors that are connected with the UN that do an annual report on the state of Islamic countries. They are scathing. The results are rarely mentioned.
 
Ed said:
There is a group of muslim schlors that are connected with the UN that do an annual report on the state of Islamic countries. They are scathing. The results are rarely mentioned.
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Go a link Ed? Thanks.
 
This is the 2003 report. If you do a search on the title the 2002 will pop up but I have not seen full text versions. The folks say a lot of things that some of us here say and places the responsibility for a lot on problems on islam, governments and people. Oddly, Jews seem not to be mentioned as a cause.

http://www.miftah.org/Doc/Reports/Englishcomplete2003.pdf

Hmmmm wonder if you changed the "2003" to "2002" in the url if you would get it.
 
God damn, hallelujah. An Arab or Muslim finally mentions that most terrorists are arabs and muslims? Like we needed telling. But they are bringing tremendous shame, not only on their region and religion, but upon humanity in general.

Such acts as were just committed in Russia should make us all ashamed to be humans. If a benevolent Alien power came to visit us, and saw such things, how could we defend ourselves as a race? We simply could not.
 
Anyone what to start taking bets on when the Fatwa for this guy will be issued?
 
10 bux of the true faithful Islamic Jehadists, the instrument of Alla's anger with this unclean filth and leaper who's words are blasphemy! All praise to Alla and his prophet Mohammad! Got change for a 20??
 
I would be making out a will if I were in his place, since it's only a matter of time till someone will murder him for claiming Islam is not a religion of peace.

But at least he has balls. It is a start. The point is, like with Communism, once a critical mass of people say they won't take it anymore from the jihadists, things will start moving quickly and their power will be broken.
 
Think of how many people Gang Bangers in the U.S. kill. If all of these deaths were re-labeled 'terrorist' (and many such slayings do qualify, BTW), we in the U.S. might be a contender for this. You could make the claim that this is primarily for profit from drugs, but realistically people who call for killing in the name of Islam probably aren't really doing it for the religious ideology. Gangs are killing over a thousand people in the U.S. every singe year. That means they've easily topped the 9/11 death toll in the years since 2001, and will probably continue to top it every three years or so.

And how about the People's Temple (Jonestown), Heaven's Gate, and Branch Davidians? Home-grown religious mass-murder/suicides.

Then throw in all of those 'Columbine' and other 'postal' events. Done 'for no reason'. Heck, Americans don't need an international terrorist network to slaughter each other. Just a gun and a grudge. Pipe bombs in a pinch.

Then there's always the abortion bombings and OKC bombings. Real home-grown terrorists.

The majority of the killing in the U.S. is not being done by Islamic wackos. Nope. All-American wackos are doing it.

Oh golly gee willickers, I wonder how long it will be before a 'gang banger' hunts me down for daring to say this?
 
Think of how many people Gang Bangers in the U.S. kill. If all of these deaths were re-labeled 'terrorist' (and many such slayings do qualify, BTW), we in the U.S. might be a contender for this.

And if shoplifting done in the US was re-labeled "genocide", the US would probably lead the world in genocides, too.

Oh golly gee willickers, I wonder how long it will be before a 'gang banger' hunts me down for daring to say this?

Well, that's just the difference: for all of its "home grown terrorism", it's not very likely that a mailman will hunt you down for making "disgruntled postal worker" jokes, or an opponent of abortion will kill you for expressing pro-choice, or that Aschcroft will hunt you down for saying Bush is an idiot.

It is, however, very likely that if you live in a Muslim country, criticizing Islam will make someone kill you.
 
I, too, salute these people. However, I hope and believe they will not be murdered for their views. The Arab world is slowly and painfully modernising, and such views are commonly expressed in many Middle-Eastern countries. It’s a pity this fact isn’t more generally known (not newsworthy, I suppose).

The MEMRI site is very useful. Look especially at the subject Reform in the Arab and Muslim world

A few recent examples:

(Sheikh Abd Al-Hamid Al-Ansari, former Dean of the Faculty of Sharia at the University of Qatar, in the London-based Arabic-language daily Al-Hayat)
After September 11, we blamed the Israeli Mossad for planning the attacks. This belief prevailed not only among popular circles. Intellectuals and high-level figures held to this belief, validating it by their allegation that 4,000 Jews didn't come to work at the World Trade Center on that cursed morning, and by the arrest of the Jews who gleefully took pictures of the destruction [of the falling towers].

Another group among us blamed the American extremist right for planning the attacks in order to provide a justification to attack Afghanistan and spread American hegemony in Central Asia. We are also very happy with the book written by the French crook Thierry Meyssan, 'The Appalling Fraud,' who became a millionaire thanks to our stupidity in translating the book into Arabic and disseminating it.
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(Dr. Mohsen Kedivar, director of the Association for the Defense of Journalism in Iran, in a speech at the Law and Political Science Faculty of the University of Tehran.)
In Iran we have experienced both secular tyranny, based on a fascist interpretation of politics and sociology, and religious tyranny, based on a fascist interpretation of faith. Religious tyranny is undoubtedly the more dangerous, since it uses religion as a means of applying political pressure on the people.

In our society, democracy is an [essential] need but it [in itself] is not sufficient… [The Islamic public] does not need to denounce democracy merely because it comes from the West. Democracy is the best method of governing, because it reduces to a minimum the role of the individual and replaces it with the rule of society by public wisdom. The establishment of a democratic order must be based on four main principles: free and fair elections, the establishment of a civil society, respect for human rights, and transparency of governmental actions.

It is incumbent upon Muslims to reevaluate the existing religious traditions and to reform religious and democratic [values]. They must accept the fact that democracy is the only way to run the social and political affairs [of society].
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(Journalist and former Kuwaiti communications minister Dr. Sa'ad bin Tefla, in an interview on Jordanian television)
Iraq was occupied [by the U.S.] a year ago. [However], before that, there was violence in Iraq that killed over one million Iraqis, Iranians, Kurds, Kuwaitis, and others. This was not done by the Zionists, the occupation, or America. This was done by Arabs and Muslims of Baghdad.

The number killed in Algeria and killed by other Arab regimes surpasses the number of Palestinians killed by Israel. Those who were slaughtered in Saudi Arabia a few days ago were peaceful Muslims who were walking in the street… There is no occupation in Saudi Arabia, no American bases, no American presence or American army…

I maintain that there is, unfortunately, a culture of violence that existed before the Americans came to Iraq and the Gulf, even before the Israeli occupation of Palestine, and before the American occupation of Afghanistan and Iraq.

In my opinion, it is [precisely] this comprehensive logic that is harming these young people and making them think there was [once] a good [Islamic] empire reaching from China in the East to Andalusia [in the west], including Chechnya…
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Skeptic said:
Think of how many people Gang Bangers in the U.S. kill. If all of these deaths were re-labeled 'terrorist' (and many such slayings do qualify, BTW), we in the U.S. might be a contender for this.

And if shoplifting done in the US was re-labeled "genocide", the US would probably lead the world in genocides, too.

Oh golly gee willickers, I wonder how long it will be before a 'gang banger' hunts me down for daring to say this?

Well, that's just the difference: for all of its "home grown terrorism", it's not very likely that a mailman will hunt you down for making "disgruntled postal worker" jokes, or an opponent of abortion will kill you for expressing pro-choice, or that Aschcroft will hunt you down for saying Bush is an idiot.

It is, however, very likely that if you live in a Muslim country, criticizing Islam will make someone kill you.
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What, you mean like being black in Texas won't get you dragged to death behind a pickup truck (Byrd) or beaten to death (Tarron Dixon)? Or being 'gay' won't get you crucified in Wyoming, like Matthew Shepard?

There's always *someone* willing to kill over some perceived insult or infraction. It's just too bad so many believe their 'omnipotent' gods are so impotent that they must take the moral law into their own hands.

Heck, just for saying torture done in the name of the U.S. is wrong on this web site, I had people telling me they would like to do violent things to me.

We have the religious right blaming 9/11 on atheists in America, and you don't believe someone in America would do violence in the name of Jesus against a heretic? You don't think someone like Madalyn Murray O’Hair would have had her share of death threats?
 
Abdulrahman al-Rashed.

There is a man who deserves to be remembered for his courage.
 
I think they went nuts over the title more than anything else.

Not the greatest book I ever read.
 
Mycroft said:
Abdulrahman al-Rashed.

There is a man who deserves to be remembered for his courage.
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Do you actually agree with him Mycroft? Do you believe it is because muslim culture is corrupted that our current world supply of terrorists are muslim? Do you think there are any other reasons? Do you believe Muslim culture was also corrupted before terrorists were muslims? I remember when the terrorists were German and Japanese an sri-lankan...


yep, its a nice simple answer that certainly avoids a lot of complications like having to understand a bit of history or sociology...
 
The Fool said:
Do you actually agree with him Mycroft? Do you believe it is because muslim culture is corrupted that our current world supply of terrorists are muslim? Do you think there are any other reasons? Do you believe Muslim culture was also corrupted before terrorists were muslims?
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Well, if you're objecting to the term “corrupted”, keep in mind he's a Muslim talking to other Muslims. He phrases the message in a way he feels it will be understood by its targeted audience. I would phrase it differently, but I would be talking to different people.

Are there other reasons? Sure, but that's no excuse not to talk about this reason. When so many conflicts in the world have this common denominator, you would have to be a fool to ignore it. (no pun intended)

Let me ask you a question:

Do you have any difficulty at all finding problems with fundamentalist Christianity? Can you think of anything dangerous about Jerry Falwell or Pat Robertson? Have you ever felt a little scared when talking to a fundamentalist Christian about the End of Times and realized they were describing the deaths of billions of people with a joyous gleam in their eye? Did you feel the slightest twinge of concern when George W Bush was quoted saying God told him to fight Saddam? Did you wonder if maybe he felt he he had a special in bringing about the battle of Armageddon?

What about the New Agers? Do you think their focusing on crystals, healing chakras, and alternative medicines might be harmful to people? Do you think that re-birthing, past lives regression and channeling might be frauds to bilk people out of money?

How about cultists? Do you think there is anything to be concerned about Heavens Gate or Branch Davidian? (Well, not any more, but you get the idea)

What about Mormons? Mostly they're harmless, but lately there have been splinter groups with wacky ideas and terrorist ambitions breaking off...do you think it's okay to talk about them?

I could go on, but the point is we can talk about all these other religions. We can be critical, we can point out their faults with relative freedom. Yet somehow, when it comes to Islam, we can't. It's taboo. We get the PC police on us calling us bigoted and racist for doing it. I don't agree with that.

I think a person should be sensitive when talking about someone else's religion. If it's criticism, I think care should be taken not to step over the line into bigotry. At the same time, I don't think we should let the fear of being called bigoted keep us from addressing real issues that need to be addressed.
 
I must say I get a little more than the slightest twing of concern when I speak to Zionists who can`t even tell you how much land they think it`s ok to steal from the Palestinians and where the final boarders of Israel might be.
That`s scary, know what I mean Mycroft?
 
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