Muslims attack Christians in West Bank

[Mycroft]

Muslims ransack Christian village

Efforts were under way on Sunday to calm the situation in this Christian village east of Ramallah after an attack by hundreds of Muslim men from nearby villages left many houses and vehicles torched.

The incident began on Saturday night and lasted until early Sunday, when Palestinian Authority security forces interfered to disperse the attackers. Residents said several houses were looted and many families were forced to flee to Ramallah and other Christian villages, although no one was injured.

The attack on the village of 1,500 was triggered by the murder of a Muslim woman from the nearby village of Deir Jarir earlier this week. The 30-year-old woman, according to PA security sources, was apparently murdered by members of her family for having had a romance with a Christian man from Taiba.

"When her family discovered that she had been involved in a forbidden relationship with a Christian, they apparently forced her to drink poison," said one source. "Then they buried her without reporting her death to the relevant authorities."

When the PA security forces decided to launch an investigation into the woman's death, her family
protested for fear that the relationship would be exposed. The family was further infuriated by the decision to exhume the body for autopsy.

Jerusalem Post

I've got a solution: Let's give them a state!

 

[Ryokan]

Yes, Mycroft, you are absolutely right! Any society where a hate crime is comitted should be denied their own country!

 

[The Fool]

I've got a solution: Let's give them a state!

Is it your position that things like this not happening should be a condition of statehood?

 

[Skeptic]

I don't know why not, "Fool". You obviously think that just about nothing israel does or could possibly do would make it a legitimate state, so I supposed we should apply a certain standard to others as well.

 

[Mycroft]

Yes, Mycroft, you are absolutely right! Any society where a hate crime is comitted should be denied their own country!

You need to improve your reading skills. I said no such thing.

Is it your position that things like this not happening should be a condition of statehood?

It's my position that this isn't anti-Christian violence. It would have happened just the same if they were Mormons.

You see, it's not about religion. These Christians invaded their country, and this is righteous resistance to colonialism.

 

[The Fool]

You need to improve your reading skills. I said no such thing.



It's my position that this isn't anti-Christian violence. It would have happened just the same if they were Mormons.

You see, it's not about religion. These Christians invaded their country, and this is righteous resistance to colonialism.

Are you intending to avoid this simple question. If so, let me know and I'll just give up.

Is it your position that things like this not happening should be a condition of statehood?

 

[The Fool]

I don't know why not, "Fool". You obviously think that just about nothing israel does or could possibly do would make it a legitimate state, so I supposed we should apply a certain standard to others as well.

shoo....

 

[Ziggurat]

Re: Re: Muslims attack Christians in West Bank

Is it your position that things like this not happening should be a condition of statehood?

Not speaking for Mycroft, but I read his statement quite differently. And I agree with it, not in the sense that such incidents should preclude the possibility of statehood, but rather that statehood cannot and will not solve the problem of violence within Palestinian society, including violence that targets other Palestinians. They've got internal problems they need to sort out on their own, and no concessions from Israel can possibly solve those problems for them.

 

[The Fool]

Re: Re: Re: Muslims attack Christians in West Bank

Not speaking for Mycroft, but I read his statement quite differently. And I agree with it, not in the sense that such incidents should preclude the possibility of statehood, but rather that statehood cannot and will not solve the problem of violence within Palestinian society, including violence that targets other Palestinians. They've got internal problems they need to sort out on their own, and no concessions from Israel can possibly solve those problems for them.

If you agree with it....fine. All I am trying to establish is what this event has (in mycrofts mind) to do with palestinian statehood. He claims he has no preconditions for supporting the establishment of a palestinians state yet constantly presents stories of violence in Palestinian societies linked with references to a palestinian state......Maybe you can help me establish what his point actually is in starting this thread?

 

[Mycroft]

Are you intending to avoid this simple question. If so, let me know and I'll just give up.

Is it your position that things like this not happening should be a condition of statehood?

We've already had discussions on conditions for statehood. If you want an answer that's different from what I've already given you, I suggest you do what you always do: fabricate one.

My position here is to illustrate the absurdity that every problem the Palestinian-Arabs have is Israel's fault, and that only action from Israel can solve them.

 

[Cain]

Jerusalem Post

I've got a solution: Let's give them a state!

Everything Mycroft says is correct, and we should thank him for bringing this news to our attention. I don't think the dirty Arab hordes are even capable of governing themselves. Who is going to enlighten these Desert Apes and instruct them in the ways of civilized society? No, the only solution is for the State of Israel (which has a right to exist, by the way) to continue to teach them -- through repeated use of violent, illegal force -- and hopefully the animals will catch on.

 

[The Fool]

We've already had discussions on conditions for statehood. If you want an answer that's different from what I've already given you, I suggest you do what you always do: fabricate one.

your claim is that you have no preconditions to supporting palestinian statehood....so can you tell me what is the point of you always mentioning palestinians statehood when you post your Palestinian violence threads. In your mind, what is the link?

My position here is to illustrate the absurdity that every problem the Palestinian-Arabs have is Israel's fault, and that only action from Israel can solve them.

Is that your position, or a position you claim someone else has put forward? That every problem the palestinian-Arabs have is israels fault, and that only action from Israel can solve it? If anyone besides yourself has expressed this opinion on JREF could you show me where?

 

[Mycroft]

Originally posted by The Fool
your claim is that you have no preconditions to supporting palestinian statehood....so can you tell me what is the point of you always mentioning palestinians statehood when you post your Palestinian violence threads. In your mind, what is the link?

Already asked and answerd. As I said, if you want a different answer...

My position here is to illustrate the absurdity that every problem the Palestinian-Arabs have is Israel's fault, and that only action from Israel can solve them.

Originally posted by The Fool
Is that your position, or a position you claim someone else has put forward?

I think a careful re-reading of what I've already written shoulld answer that for you.

Originally posted by The Fool
That every problem the palestinian-Arabs have is israels fault, and that only action from Israel can solve it? If anyone besides yourself has expressed this opinion on JREF could you show me where?

I have never said that every problem the Palestinian-Arabs have is Israel's fault, but I believe that is your opinion, is it not?

 

[The Fool]

Already asked and answerd. As I said, if you want a different answer...

My position here is to illustrate the absurdity that every problem the Palestinian-Arabs have is Israel's fault, and that only action from Israel can solve them.

so in order to try to establish that.... you provide nothing that refers to it......I would have though that if your intention was to establish something you would at least talk on the topic or provide some information that is related to the topic.... your link does not claim it is israels fault or refer to anyone else who believes this either....It does not say that only Israeli action can solve them or refer to anyone else who claims this......


I think a careful re-reading of what I've already written shoulld answer that for you.

Nope, as usual you grandly proclaim the argument you wish to demolish but fail to identify who holds the position or any evidence that the position has ever been proposed....by anyone at all.....


I have never said that every problem the Palestinian-Arabs have is Israel's fault, but I believe that is your opinion, is it not?

well, I was hoping it was you because I'm damned if I can find anyone else claiming it is true....how about you show one example of where I claim it?.....(psycic claims of being able to tell what I "really believe" don't count). Interested in taking up the challenge?

"every problem the Palestinian-Arabs have is Israel's fault, and that only action from Israel can solve them."

find me an example of someone arguing that case.....It is simply your straw man of choice for todays trolling thread.

 

[peptoabysmal]

Jerusalem Post

...

The incident began on Saturday night and lasted until early Sunday, when Palestinian Authority security forces interfered to disperse the attackers. Residents said several houses were looted and many families were forced to flee to Ramallah and other Christian villages, although no one was injured.

...

I've got a solution: Let's give them a state!

Are you trying to say the the Palestinian government's response to this emergency was too slow? I thought that sort of argument was reserved for Republican administrations.

Seriously though, don't you think that if Palestinian security forces are handling these hate crimes, that they deserve as much of a chance for statehood as any other nation plagued with hate crimes? Wasn't the Israeli complaint that the Palestinian authorities were not doing anything to prevent terrorist acts or racial violence?

 

[Mycroft]

Re: Re: Muslims attack Christians in West Bank

Are you trying to say the the Palestinian government's response to this emergency was too slow? I thought that sort of argument was reserved for Republican administrations.

Actually, I find the response of the Palestinian-Authority quite satisfactory in this case. They deserve kudos for a job well done.

 

[Mycroft]

.

I have never said that every problem the Palestinian-Arabs have is Israel's fault, but I believe that is your opinion, is it not?

well, I was hoping it was you because I'm damned if I can find anyone else claiming it is true....how about you show one example of where I claim it?.....(psycic claims of being able to tell what I "really believe" don't count). Interested in taking up the challenge?

Perhaps I am mistaken. It seems to me that whenever problems are discussed that relate to the Palestinian-Arab people, there is a contingent from Australia, of which you are a part, that pops up to say , "But what about...?" and then says something about Israel, and their culpability in whatever it was.

So if you disagree with my assessment, perhaps you can help me dispel this once and for all. All you need to do is list two or three problems the Palestinian-Arabs have that you believe are not created by Israel. Could you do that for me?

 

[The Fool]

.



Perhaps I am mistaken. It seems to me that whenever problems are discussed that relate to the Palestinian-Arab people, there is a contingent from Australia, of which you are a part, that pops up to say , "But what about...?" and then says something about Israel, and their culpability in whatever it was.

So if you disagree with my assessment, perhaps you can help me dispel this once and for all. All you need to do is list two or three problems the Palestinian-Arabs have that you believe are not created by Israel. Could you do that for me?

sure..
Corrupt leadership...(Arafat), Religious fundamentalism among large numbers of extremists, Awash with weapons, Also Racism is a big problem. Is that all I had to do or is there about to be a goalpost shift?

But as you said, perhaps you are mistaken....so back to your claims. Where is a single example of someone on this board proposing that "every problem the Palestinian-Arabs have is Israel's fault, and that only action from Israel can solve them".

What is the purpose of this thread? You are arguing against a position that doesn't appear to exist (unless you can find it somewhere) using an example that does not deal with the claim....was it just intended to be tuesdays negative palestinian thread?

 

[The Fool]

Re: Re: Re: Muslims attack Christians in West Bank

Actually, I find the response of the Palestinian-Authority quite satisfactory in this case. They deserve kudos for a job well done.

so what was the point of "I've got a solution, lets give them a state!" What is the link between the article and a palestinian state?

 

[Ziggurat]

Re: Re: Muslims attack Christians in West Bank

Everything Mycroft says is correct, and we should thank him for bringing this news to our attention. I don't think the dirty Arab hordes are even capable of governing themselves. Who is going to enlighten these Desert Apes and instruct them in the ways of civilized society?

The implication here being that Mycroft is being racist. However, I'm afraid you're the one being racist, because you refuse to hold Palestinians to the same standards as westerners. It seems not to bother you at all that they engage in mob violence, and you see no reason for there to be consequences for such behavior. You would never tolerate that in your own country, though. That kind of double standard is racist. That you can convince yourself that you're the one being "generous" by withholding condemnation really doesn't change the fact that you're still engaging in the bigotry of low expectations.

No, the only solution is for the State of Israel (which has a right to exist, by the way)

How many times do you need to be told this? The "right" to exist is irrelevant. What matters is actual existence, and the power to maintain that existence. Israel has both. Palestine (as an arab state) has neither.

through repeated use of violent, illegal force

What makes something illegal? Doesn't there have to be a controlling authority? Doesn't there have to be some sort of enforcement mechanism? Shouldn't that mechanism be impartial? Who would that be in this case, if not the Israeli courts? The only organization I can imagine you'd put forward for the role is the UN, but even that would be laughable. Not only do they not have the ability to enforce such laws (let alone do so with anything approaching impartiality), but it's the UN which gave Israel the "right" to exist. I doubt your views actually have any coherence, but that's OK as long as you remain blissfully ignorant of your own contradictions?