Mult-vitamins a must!

[Iamme]

The article aboput this was in this last weekends newspaper insert "USA Weekend". Any of you get that publication?

The need for mult-vitamins and diputes over their absorbancy have come under fire through the years. Some say that by eating good, you don't NEED multi-vitamins. And, or as of late, a company who makes the supplement product called Seasilver, claims that our bodies only absorb 10-20% of pills! Now THIS article!

Here is some of what they say: 10 out of 13 studies show that giving children multi-vitamins raises their non-verbal I.Q. scores as much as 30%. That taking MV's for a year boosted immune system function and cut infections, such as flu, 40% in diabetics and 50% in the elderly, when compared with placebos. In a new Swedish study, men who took multi-vitamins had a 20% lower risk of heart attack, and women, 35%, compared with those not taking them. Colon cancer is shown to be cut 50% in women who have a family history of the disease. Fewer cataracts. Vitamin deficiency = DNA damage, they say. The damage can cause you to age prematurely, get cancer, Alzheimer's and Parkinson's. The groundbreaking discovery about this DNA business was made by researcher Bruce Ames and his group.

I have been taking either Centrum or a Centrum copy/generic for the last couple years...and I haven't been sick. And I used to be...regularly. Luck? Other things? Who knows. But after reading this...I guess we stick with it.

 

[MoeFaux]

A friend caught me munching on some Vitamin C tablets (they make good candy), and remarked, "you're just making expensive piss".
The only thing I worry about is getting enough folic acid.

 

[El Greco]

Ok, now you come to my fields

First of all, there is a way to check what vitamins / minerals you get in a particular day from food. Just go to the Nutrition Analysis Tool, plug in what you ate for one day and it will give you the quantities of all macronutrients and micronutrients. You may find that you already take daily much more than what a multivit would give you.

If you eat a good diet you don't need multivitamins. A good diet is:
- vegetables every day
- legumes
- adequate protein (from lean cuts of meat including red meat, dairy, fish etc)
- Good fatty acids (mainly poly- & mono- unsaturated, but some saturated is essential too)

If you train more than 1-2 hours a week, you will probably need extra quantities of certain vitamins and minerals (more notably Vit.C, Vit.E, Ca, Mg).

If there is ONE supplement ALL people should use, this is an EPA/DHA supplement. Cod liver oil will do the job (although fish oil caps may have too low concetrations of EPA/DHA).

Special conditions (pregnancy, anaemia, etc) may require extra supplementation.

 

[Jon_in_london]

I take cod liver oil to combat the winter miseries and keep up my vitamin D because I wont see a photon of sun until march.

I like those fizzy VitC pills, they are really refreshing!

 

[El Greco]

To address the studies you mention: Point me to specific studies and I can debunk them one by one. There is no meaning in comparing "men taking multivits" to "men not taking multivits". What were their other nutritional habits ? Who paid for the studies ?

Mutlivitamins will NOT give you a lot of absolutely essential stuff that is found in food. Like soluble and insoluble fiber from vegetables, special antioxidants (some of which we don't know yet), a special agent found in red meat wich increases absorption of B12 etc.

Multivitamins are cheap and leave a lot of profit. They give nothing to someone who follows a balanced diet. If your diet is crap, then yes, take one. But it is just going to replace a small percentage of what you are missing by not having good food.

 

[Iamme]

Hi El Greco. Is this your line of 'work'...or your line of 'interest'?

If you are an expert in this field, you might be able to help out Jean Carper who is a contributing 'eat smart' editor for USA Weekend. Ever hear of her, or KNOW her?

After reading your post, this thought crossed my mind: Suppose ANOTHER study was conducted that pitted the results of multivitams up against (not placebos or no vitamins...but) a regimine like you espouse? That be interesting.

I also take extra magnesium/calcium/zinc, which metabolize together, and potassium. I also eat sardines to get Omega-3. Jean Carper had a full page article on the merits of Omega-3, and of anything I have ever heard of in my life as far as supplements go, and proven effectiveness...this ranks right up there. Sort of with anti-oxidants.

 

[El Greco]

It's both work and interest. I am a pharmacist but also have been heavily training (various sports in the past, now just weights) and have tried lots of supplements and every diet on earth. I'm also a regular in relevant fora like HST and CEM.

Sorry, never heard of Jean Carper. I don't say I'm an expert, there are no experts when you start to question things on the edge of research. But it really doesn't take an expert to construct a balanced diet for the average person.

Not all omega-3 fatty acids are equal. alpha-linolenic acid is an omega-3 acid (abundant in flax seed) but its rate of conversion in the body to the effective omega-3s (EPA and DHA) is low. This is why I focused on these two.

A study like the one you propose would be very difficult to conduct, because you can't monitor so many people's nutrition for the time needed to get any useful results. Just try the Nutrition Analysis Tool I linked. If you take e.g. 400mg of vit.C from food every day, you would agree that 60mg more from Centrum isn't really necessary, wouldn't you ?

 

[Iamme]

Per your request El Greco: Bruce Ames, world-reknowned (don't you like that one? )researcher on anti-oxidants and nutrients at the University of California-Berkeley, and Children's Hospital of Oakland Research Institute.

David Burton, of Britain's University of Wales Swansea. (about the I.Q.)

University of North Carolina and at Memorial University in Newfoundland (about the infections).

Swedish study (less heart disease)

Harvard study (less cancer)

Fewer cataracts (University of Wisconsin-Madison) (Yea!!!!!)

Eatsmart, by Jean Carper (this column) is an authority on nutrition. Contact her and sign up for her free newsletter at JeanCarper.com

 

[BTox]

If there is ONE supplement ALL people should use, this is an EPA/DHA supplement. Cod liver oil will do the job (although fish oil caps may have too low concetrations of EPA/DHA).

I wouldn't recommend cod liver oil as it is too high in vit A, and there are better sources of epa/dha. I've been taking a fish oil concentrate supplement for years, supplies 500 mgs of EPA/DHA per 1 g softgel, 2.5X more same weight dosage than cod liver oil and other fish oil supplements.

 

[CurtC]

My wife has been wanting me to take vitamins for some time, and she came across this article the other day. As she was reading it to me, it mentioned "Dr. Ames," and I asked who he is, because if that's *Bruce* Ames, I consider him a credible source. And it was Bruce Ames.

However, Bruce's comments were perfectly reasonable IMHO. He said that he would like everyone in America to take vitamins each day, because there are a large number of people who could benefit, and it's inexpensive. He said especially the young, the old, the pregnant, and the sick. I'm not in any of those categories.

The other results of studies claiming IQ increases etc. were not from Dr. Ames, yet the article didn't make that clear. I told my wife I would read the article, and later when she asked about it, I commented that I didn't see anything there that made me think I would benefit from vitamins. She got mad at me.

 

[joyrex]

I am a pharmacist but also have been heavily training (various sports in the past, now just weights) and have tried lots of supplements and every diet on earth.

What would you say are the critical points to consider when being on a vegan or lacto-ovo vegetarian diet? There's a lot of information about but also much disinformation.

 

[El Greco]

Per your request El Greco: Bruce Ames, world-reknowned (don't you like that one? )researcher on anti-oxidants and nutrients at the University of California-Berkeley, and Children's Hospital of Oakland Research Institute.

David Burton, of Britain's University of Wales Swansea. (about the I.Q.)

University of North Carolina and at Memorial University in Newfoundland (about the infections).

Swedish study (less heart disease)

Harvard study (less cancer)

Fewer cataracts (University of Wisconsin-Madison) (Yea!!!!!)

Eatsmart, by Jean Carper (this column) is an authority on nutrition. Contact her and sign up for her free newsletter at JeanCarper.com

Do you mean a "TV-expert", because we have thousands of them. If you want to get past "TV-experts" like Jean Carper (which when I visited her site I realized what a scam she is) look for names like Lyle McDonald, Will Brink, Rosemary Vernon etc. But of course, they don't sell bottles titled "Stop Aging Now" with their face on them.

As for the studies, you know, there is a great little place called PubMed where all peer reviewed studies are cited. Point me to a study from there instead of ruminating what you have scavenged around the net.

You seem like another case of multivitamin woo-woo, as Dr. Barrett would have said.

 

[El Greco]

I wouldn't recommend cod liver oil as it is too high in vit A, and there are better sources of epa/dha. I've been taking a fish oil concentrate supplement for years, supplies 500 mgs of EPA/DHA per 1 g softgel, 2.5X more same weight dosage than cod liver oil and other fish oil supplements.

It's impossible to suffer Vit.A overdose from cod liver oil when you take 10-15ml per day. The only group who should avoid it are pregnant women.

 

[El Greco]

What would you say are the critical points to consider when being on a vegan or lacto-ovo vegetarian diet? There's a lot of information about but also much disinformation.

I'd hate to burst a vegan's bubble, but I would suggest reading the articles at BeyondVeg. Meat is NOT bad for you.

Anyway, B12 supplements are certainly needed when you are vegetarian. Omega-3 supplementation is even more crucial. Protein quality may or may not be an issue, depending on whether one is lacto-ovo or not. But it would be good if you could keep track of daily protein intake. For strict vegans, it would be nice if they could include both grains and legumes in their daily menu so that they get a more complete aminoacid profile.

There could be other problems when you exclude meat from your diet. For example, there has recently been identified a "B12-absorption factor" in red meat, which greatly enhances B12 utilization in the body. Perhaps this is why *some* long time vegans cannot increase their B12 levels even with supplemention.

 

[El Greco]

Anyway, for anyone who's interested in a sound dietary plan, even if they have no background, I'd recommend reading the 20 (or so) part article by Rosemary Vernon You Are What You Eat. She suggests weight-training as well but you could skip that part if there is no way you could do it.

From the same place, a renowned authority, the late Dr. Mel Siff, sheds light on how "studies" and "facts" are presented in an a questionable way in order to promote certain products, even from allegedly "serious" sites like LEF: LEF exposed

Unfortunately, those experts do not sell any bottles with their face on them that will increase your IQ. If you need that, you know where to look

 

[BTox]

It's impossible to suffer Vit.A overdose from cod liver oil when you take 10-15ml per day. The only group who should avoid it are pregnant women.

10-15 ml per day can put you over the upper tolerable limit for vitamin A (10,000 IU). Way too much, IMO. I don't take any vit A supplements directly, instead take mixed carotenes.

 

[El Greco]

10-15 ml per day can put you over the upper tolerable limit for vitamin A (10,000 IU). Way too much, IMO. I don't take any vit A supplements directly, instead take mixed carotenes.

Chronic toxicity occurs from intakes ~33000 iu daily for a month or so. Way above 10000 iu.

Furthermore, regular cod liver oil like
this (not enriched or purified etc) will give 6000 iu of Vit.A for 15ml.

 

[BTox]

Chronic toxicity occurs from intakes ~33000 iu daily for a month or so. Way above 10000 iu.

Furthermore, regular cod liver oil like
this (not enriched or purified etc) will give 6000 iu of Vit.A for 15ml.

Not talking about chronic toxicity or OD. And the vit A content of cod liver oils available varies widely. Here's one that is almost 15,000 IU per 15 ml:
norwegian clo

The point is there are better supplements available to get EPA/DHA that are more concentrated and without the unnecessary vit A.

 

[El Greco]

I said that vit.A concetration may vary according to production methods. Twinlab's other fish oil contains 4600 iu per tbsp, not tsp. Purification for example, destroys a lot of vit.A.

When we are talking about potential problems that could occur from ingesting something daily, this is called "chronic toxicity". There is either chronic or acute. No other way for Vit.A to harm you.

Indeed, I would prefer capsules of EPA/DHA. Not to avoid vit.A, but because with fish oil you have to get a good amount of calories with your EPA/DHA. The problem is that with capsules we may have other problems. I'm not talking about the cost per mg of EPA/DHA which is a usually a multiple of the CLO cost. But what kind of fish oil do they come from ? Are they molecularly distilled or there could be danger from heavy metals (mercury etc) ? Cod is an open sea fish and gives perhaps the safer fish oil you can get.

 

[BTox]

When we are talking about potential problems that could occur from ingesting something daily, this is called "chronic toxicity". There is either chronic or acute. No other way for Vit.A to harm you.

There are studies showing a relationship between vit A consumption greater than 10,000 IU per day and increased risk of bone fractures. Has not been verified but if real I would not term this chronic toxicity. In any event, I see no benefit to mega-dosing on any vitamins, especially fat soluble ones like vit A. Why take the risk?

Indeed, I would prefer capsules of EPA/DHA. Not to avoid vit.A, but because with fish oil you have to get a good amount of calories with your EPA/DHA. The problem is that with capsules we may have other problems. I'm not talking about the cost per mg of EPA/DHA which is a usually a multiple of the CLO cost. But what kind of fish oil do they come from ? Are they molecularly distilled or there could be danger from heavy metals (mercury etc) ? Cod is an open sea fish and gives perhaps the safer fish oil you can get.

The quality of the majority of fish oil supplements is good. A recent test by ConsumerLabs showed all tested (n=20) had no problems with heavy metal contamination nor rancidity.