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Most Influencial Magician?

Tomtomkent

Philosopher
Tomtomkent
Joined
Jul 5, 2010
Messages
8,607
Which stage magician or performer would you suggest had the greatest influence on subsequent acts? Heller for the format of his music and magic show after the American civil war? Houdin for making magic respectable? Houdini for mass appeal? Or somebody else I have yet to think of?
 
I won't mock, but I will strenuously disagree. If you're going to keep it in the modern era then I'd say Geller has been far more influential than Kreskin, despite the fact that I do not care for Geller at all.

But if I were really to choose one, I'd at least put Houdin on my short list. I'm loathe to name a single number one or best or most influential or whatever in any genre, but I can usually pick a short list. Houdin's on it. I keep wanting to add Houdini, but the phrasing of the OP keeps me from doing so.
 
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It would be easy to say Dai Vernon, so I'll say Dai Vernon.
 
Brown said:
It would be easy to say Dai Vernon, so I'll say Dai Vernon.
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I rejected him because of the way the OP was phrased. The consummate magician's magician who influenced infinite card effect presentations but who didn't, imo, fit the bill of stage performer who influenced subsequent acts.
 
Garrette said:
I rejected him because of the way the OP was phrased. The consummate magician's magician who influenced infinite card effect presentations but who didn't, imo, fit the bill of stage performer who influenced subsequent acts.
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I dunno, Dai was not a stage magician in the conventional sense, but he was a performer who had a lot of influence. And he sometimes did stage presentations (cups and balls, linking rings), and many of his moves are now almost industry standard. Incredibly, some of his most memorable contributions seem to be the most obvious, such as the notion that it can be more deceptive to act naturally than to act flamboyantly, and that tricks should be designed so that they can be described in a single sentence by a spectator to someone who never saw the trick.

If we want to talk about stage performers who really made an impact, the Blackstones come to mind. (Trivia: I once rode on the same commercial jet as Harry Blackstone Jr., and I saw his name on his luggage at the baggage area. Harry went to the rear seats of the plane so that he could smoke.)
 
Brown said:
I dunno, Dai was not a stage magician in the conventional sense, but he was a performer who had a lot of influence. And he sometimes did stage presentations (cups and balls, linking rings), and many of his moves are now almost industry standard. Incredibly, some of his most memorable contributions seem to be the most obvious, such as the notion that it can be more deceptive to act naturally than to act flamboyantly, and that tricks should be designed so that they can be described in a single sentence by a spectator to someone who never saw the trick.
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I agree with all that; I suppose it's just a matter of how to interpret the OP.

Brown said:
If we want to talk about stage performers who really made an impact, the Blackstones come to mind. (Trivia: I once rode on the same commercial jet as Harry Blackstone Jr., and I saw his name on his luggage at the baggage area. Harry went to the rear seats of the plane so that he could smoke.)
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I can agree with Blackstone as being on the short list, but if I were being contrarian (and I feel slightly that way this morning for no real reason) I'd say he was simply reviving the style of Houdin.

The caveat to all this is that I'm not really expert on the history of magic and magicians and I'm writing from memory, so all my thoughts here could be thrown discarded without any real loss of value.
 
From what little I know of Houdin (or Robert-Houdin), his stage work must have been really exceptional for its time. Although I do not know if any of his peformances has been popularly (and accurately) re-created, I suspect much of his work would look pedestrian by today's standards, because so many performers have followed in his footsteps. It may be the same reaction some people have to seeing "Citizen Kane" for the first time, with people thinking the cinematic devices were trite, not realizing that some of the techniques in that movie had never been done before.

Someone else who had a sort of long-standing effect was Doug Henning. His impact was good in some ways and not so good in others. In his well-received "Magic Show," he popularized stage magic with modern music in colorful but comfortable clothes. He didn't wear a tux or a shirt with loose sleeves. He even did some effects in short sleeves. Non-magical showmanship became a major part of the act. Many of his illusions were canned and required almost no skill. (Although he was not unskilled, Henning was, in the words of James Randi, "a bumbler"; Henning had some spectacular cock-ups, including an embarrassing magical foul-up at his own wedding.) He looked like a hippy or a goof, not like a traditional class act magician. His vocal delivery was terrible and usually his scripted patter was poor, but he could usually hold an audience's interest.

Today, quite a few performers have broken from the traditional magician-in-tuxedo model, but in the 1970s, Mark Wilson and Harry Blackstone and quite a few others were still using it.
 
Tomtomkent said:
Which stage magician or performer would you suggest had the greatest influence on subsequent acts? Heller for the format of his music and magic show after the American civil war? Houdin for making magic respectable? Houdini for mass appeal? Or somebody else I have yet to think of?
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Doug Henning.:cool:
 
Jesus wins...

Good morning.
I think he has a larger following then the others mentioned.
pretty influentuial. It is often said there are only a few effects and it is the presentation that counts. I am not sure if I agree with that or not. Modern
technology has changed things a bit. It is just a tool and not
a bad thing. With that said, Mascalne(miss spelled) for his brillance
and showmanship. Houdin for his technical brillance
and Houdini for his ability to hold an audiance
captivated. I am guessing they all influenced the
teachers of modern magicians. As always I could be wrong.
 
Was kreskin ever good then? I've only seen him in older age and he just keeps doing the same lame card trick.
 
Good? Yes; he was very good, though not perhaps in the way many think of it.

I bought this DVD set of Kreskin a couple of months ago. I've only watched a small amount of it so far and I am struck by two things:

Much of what he does is--from a magician's point of view--quite basic, even beginner level (not all of it, mind you).

And all that he does is presented with such enthusiasm that the audience can't fail to be entertained.

Finally, it has brought back the same feelings I remember as a youngster watching his show: I find the mentalist portions intriguing (he does magic as well as mentalism), but I find his style off-putting, sort of the opposite end of the spectrum of Max Maven whose style I also find off-putting but whose immense talent I can still appreciate.
 
Whatever you think of his style, I find Max Maven much more talented and certainly way more influential than Kreskin.
 
Garrette said:
Please note the last 8 words of my previous post.
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I wasn't responding to you directly--sorry if it came across that way. I was responding more to the claim that Kreskin is particularly talented or influential, by pointing out that Max Maven (whose style I admit is polarizing) is much more talented and has been significantly more influential than Kreskin.

ETA: Regarding Kreskin, I think he is talented as a showman and at selling himself, both of which are positive traits, of course (look at Houdini). Personally, I don't see him very talented as a mentalist or magician.
 
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Okay. Sorry for misreading. I'm not sure I'd agree on who is more influential, though, especially if we restrict it to the OP which is discussing influence on stage presentation. I think Kreskin would likely win out over Maven there, but I'm not really deadset on it.
 
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