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Mormons on NPR

JoeTheJuggler

Penultimate Amazing
JoeTheJuggler
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Jun 7, 2006
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Just listening to the NPR program on Mormonism. It's pretty slanted to a pro-Mormon position.

A caller just got away with characterizing the history of the church as being unfairly persecuted by others.

I suspect we won't hear anything about racism and massacres.
 
Yeah, it's unfortunate. But there is a question of relevancy. If the history is brought up then the facts ought to be noted. Much of the persecution was brought on by the Mormons.
 
Yes. [ETA that was in response to Adman's post]

The teaser said it was going to be about dispelling myths many non-Mormons have about Mormons, but so far I'm mainly hearing strawman "myths".

The biggest myth, the guest says, is that people believe all Mormons are the same.

The claim was made that the Church of LDS does not engage in politics. While the show's title is about "modern Mormonism" (I have news: there was no "ancient Mormonism"!) they've mentioned the history several times without addressing the biggest skeletons in their closet.
 
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What did you expect ? "we were/are such a racist bunch ! We used to massacrate joily others. Nowadays yougnster don't uphold the tradition anymore" or suchlike ? :P
 
Good, they finally mentioned an e-mail similar to the one I sent asking about the Church lobbying for Prop 8.
 
Aepervius said:
What did you expect ? "we were/are such a racist bunch ! We used to massacrate joily others. Nowadays yougnster don't uphold the tradition anymore" or suchlike ? :P
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Of course I didn't expect any such honesty of a program that was teased as dispelling myths about modern Mormonism.


So, the second guest at least won't agree with the assertion of the first guest that the Church isn't political. Apparently what happened in the 1980s (she ignored the more recent Prop 8 involvement), is also part of ancient history and not part of "modern" Mormonism.
 
Ack! What a love fest. They really glossed over the reason why blacks were banned from the priesthood. No mention that Brigham Young wrote "The Lord had cursed Cain's seed with blackness and prohibited them the Priesthood," as well as...

Cain slew his brother. Cain might have been killed, and that would have put a termination to that line of human beings. This was not to be, and the Lord put a mark upon him, which is the flat nose and black skin.
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After the interview, the guests must have been jumping for joy that they didn't get any tough questions.

Steve S
 
I think it only fair to say that contemporary Mormons are decent moral people. They are not racist. The have a peculiar set of dynamics. I think they are by and large industrious and kind. They are also stressed and suffer a lot of depression. In any event, to the extent we can speak in generalities those are stereotypes and I think Mormons deserve to be judged the same as any of us.
 
RandFan said:
I think it only fair to say that contemporary Mormons are decent moral people. They are not racist. The have a peculiar set of dynamics. I think they are by and large industrious and kind. They are also stressed and suffer a lot of depression.
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To what extent do those traits apply more to Mormons than to non-Mormons? And what is driving the differences, assuming there are any?
 
I sadly don't know as much about the LDS church as I'd like (I even kept pestering the local Elders on their Mission with questions until they stopped coming around).

The whole question of what "blackness" and "lightness" of skin means from a theological and doctrinal perspective is definitely an interesting one. One of the aforementioned Elders was actually an African-American, and I got to quiz him a bit on his reaction to the historical attitudes of the mainstream LDS church, though I was mainly focused on other questions during their weekly visits.
 
RandFan said:
I think it only fair to say that contemporary Mormons are decent moral people. They are not racist.
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I don't think most of us believe that most Mormons are racists, but the church leadership has some real problems. If the prophets of the church are divinely inspired, then why were they on the wrong side of slavery and racism for so long. They didn't repudiate their racist doctrines until 1978, a decade after the civil rights movement. You'd think that sometime during 150 years, their god would have inspired the leaders to think "Slavery is wrong. Racism is bad."

Steve S
 
steve s said:
Ack! What a love fest. They really glossed over the reason why blacks were banned from the priesthood. No mention that Brigham Young wrote "The Lord had cursed Cain's seed with blackness and prohibited them the Priesthood," as well as...



After the interview, the guests must have been jumping for joy that they didn't get any tough questions.
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Yep. But apparently all of that was ancient Mormonism.

The second guest (the English prof), at least pointed out that the term "Mormonism" correctly applies to several different religions that all trace their lineage back to Joe Smith's prophecies, but the Church of LDS is the largest and most "mainstream" one that seems to have liberalized all its doctrine considerably.

But, of course, there are still Mormon churches that are very racist and that espouse a particularly misogynist form of polygamy.

And apparently the underwear is just special in some symbolic way, but not supernatural. :D
 
RandFan said:
I think it only fair to say that contemporary Mormons are decent moral people. They are not racist.
Click to expand...

All of them? I learned that the single biggest myth is the belief that all Mormons are the same. I've never believed that myself. In fact, I'd be willing to bet money that there are some Mormons that are not decent and moral and some that are racist.

How would you rate them on honesty if they are so unwilling to discuss the unsavory bits of their history (for example allowing the caller who characterized the history as one of unfair persecution by others to go unchallenged and uncorrected)?
 
steve s said:
I don't think most of us believe that most Mormons are racists, but the church leadership has some real problems. If the prophets of the church are divinely inspired, then why were they on the wrong side of slavery and racism for so long. They didn't repudiate their racist doctrines until 1978, a decade after the civil rights movement. You'd think that sometime during 150 years, their god would have inspired the leaders to think "Slavery is wrong. Racism is bad."
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But that's way back in the ancient times and has no bearing whatsoever on contemporary or modern Mormons--as long as we ignore the various small Mormon sects that have not repudiated racist doctrines, but who could make a stronger case that they are adhering to the teachings of the founders of Mormonism (i.e. Smith and Young).
 
JoeTheJuggler said:
All of them? I learned that the single biggest myth is the belief that all Mormons are the same. I've never believed that myself. In fact, I'd be willing to bet money that there are some Mormons that are not decent and moral and some that are racist.

How would you rate them on honesty if they are so unwilling to discuss the unsavory bits of their history (for example allowing the caller who characterized the history as one of unfair persecution by others to go unchallenged and uncorrected)?
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I think you need to read Randfan's full post. He makes his point clear in the last sentence.

RandFan said:
In any event, to the extent we can speak in generalities those are stereotypes and I think Mormons deserve to be judged the same as any of us.
Click to expand...
 
steve s said:
I don't think most of us believe that most Mormons are racists, but the church leadership has some real problems. If the prophets of the church are divinely inspired, then why were they on the wrong side of slavery and racism for so long. They didn't repudiate their racist doctrines until 1978, a decade after the civil rights movement. You'd think that sometime during 150 years, their god would have inspired the leaders to think "Slavery is wrong. Racism is bad."

Steve S
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I attack the leadership all of the time. I agree with you completely.
 
JoeTheJuggler said:
All of them? I learned that the single biggest myth is the belief that all Mormons are the same. I've never believed that myself. In fact, I'd be willing to bet money that there are some Mormons that are not decent and moral and some that are racist.

How would you rate them on honesty if they are so unwilling to discuss the unsavory bits of their history (for example allowing the caller who characterized the history as one of unfair persecution by others to go unchallenged and uncorrected)?
Click to expand...
This seems to be pretty typical of theists. Preserving faith is paramount. Questioning your faith is very scary and it places one at great risk of losing community, family and friends. It's really a lousy thing to have to deal with. So, as a Mormon you start with the knowledge that you are right. You know that there must be answers you just don't know what that answer is so you fall back on faith knowing that god will bless you for that faith.

It's all BS of course. I try to pin down Mormons all of the time. There are two on this forum. One is obstinate and combative. The other will concede to some points but on others the poster simply ignores the questions. It's frustrating but I do understand it as I was one of those people once.
 
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