More on Canada/US

[Bearguin]

This disturbed me

http://www.globeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20030327.uamer0327/BNStory/National

Quote:

"Ottawa — U.S. Ambassador Paul Cellucci was delivering a rebuke straight from President George W. Bush's White House this week when he complained of Canada's refusal to participate in the war in Iraq, U.S. officials confirmed yesterday.

Despite Liberal government assurances that the Bush administration had accepted the Canadian decision gracefully, U.S. officials say Mr. Bush and his advisers are furious, not only with the decision to stay out of the battle but also with what they say is the anti-American rhetoric that Prime Minister Jean Chrétien has tolerated."

Now I have stated that I disagree with Canadian policy, but at what point does the American reaction cross the line? We are a sovereign nation and still have the right to self-determination and the kind of strong-arming related in this article just freaks me out.

Can we not agree to disagree?

Remember, I think Chretian has acted like a horses butt on this and would support sending our 1/2 dozen troops to the war.

 

[Bearguin]

Remember, I think Chretian has acted like a horses butt on this and would support sending our 1/2 dozen troops to the war.

Replying to myself has to be bad form, but after posting the above, I saw this story

Six Canadians in battle zones
http://www.globeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20030327.ucana0327/BNStory/National

 

[FFed]

From what I saw he was right on the money. How long do we expect the US to sit there and take insults from Chretien and his liberal buddies. What I found was interesting was when the Ambassador commented on Premier Kleins letter of support and how Chretien was angry with Klein, and yet did nothing when one of the liberals called the American idiots (or whatever).

I have heard people sayin that this is not the Ambassadors role, but I say that is exactly his role. He needs to let the government know what his government thinks.

I hope the President does not visit Ottawa and snubs Chretien. He deserves it. Canada/US relations is at an all time low.

 

[Segnosaur]

Now I have stated that I disagree with Canadian policy, but at what point does the American reaction cross the line? We are a sovereign nation and still have the right to self-determination and the kind of strong-arming related in this article just freaks me out.

Can we not agree to disagree?

Well, as the article said, part of the reason why the Americans are annoyed is because of comments made by various politicians (like calling Americans 'b*stards', etc.) And although it wasn't Cretien who said that, he did little or nothing to rebuke his fellow liberals.

Of course, this is in addition to all the other things the govenment has done to alienate the Americans over the past decade, like:
- Failure to tighten up our refugee policy, while at the same time wanting an open border with the U.S.
- During the U.S. election, the Canadian ambassador made a comment about how he'd like Gore to win, and the Liberals never did anything about it (It is a tradition that the ambassadors should remain neutral during elections.)
- Failure to adequately fund our own forces. (Remember, we had to get the Americans to help us get to Afghanistan. Then, once their 'term' was up, we withdrew them, despite the Americans asking us to leave them there because they were doing well.)
- And don't forget back in the Trudeau years, when our PM was more interested in hanging out with Castro and spinning behind the queen to really do anything to build relations with the U.S.

Adding to the latest problems is one of the Liberal MPs suggesting that the ambassador should be censured. (On the other hand, the Iraqi diplomat had not been asked to leave.)

There is also a little hipocracy in the Canadian government position; we would support the war if the U.N. agreed to it, so they were not opposed to the idea of the coalition attack. But then people in the government say that the attack is not justified.

 

[arcticpenguin]

U.S. officials say Mr. Bush and his advisers are furious, not only with the decision to stay out of the battle but also with what they say is the anti-American rhetoric that Prime Minister Jean Chrétien has tolerated."

Chretien tolerates free speech? How dare he!

Meanwhile we have Bush acting with complete maturity: Air Force One bans 'French' toast

 

[a_unique_person]

Chretien tolerates free speech? How dare he!

Meanwhile we have Bush acting with complete maturity: Air Force One bans 'French' toast

despite the australian prime ministers backing of the war, there have been a few politicians mouthing off at GWB as well. This has also earned them a rebuke from the US ambassador here.

 

[Walter Wayne]

Chretien tolerates free speech? How dare he!

...

Part of this issue is that it is alleged that he is much less forgiving with people who support Bush (i.e. chastising Klein for voicing support).

Walt

 

[Badger]

Chretien tolerates free speech? How dare he!

Meanwhile we have Bush acting with complete maturity: Air Force One bans 'French' toast

No, he doesn't seem to tolerate free speech.

Just the other day he threatened his party to vote how he wanted them to or face expulshion. He also kicked his finance minister out of Cabinet, when the guy made it clear that he'd run for the leadership of the liberal party when Chretien left. I could dig up other examples of his dictatorial behaviour if you wish.

So he only tolerates free speech when it's what he wants to hear.

 

[Segnosaur]

Chretien tolerates free speech? How dare he!

There's free speech, and then there's free speech.

A regular individual should be able to speak for (or against) any subject they choose. They should be able to insult others (unless it involves slander).

The rules for politicians differ from other people. Yes, a politician should be able to say whatever they want, but they have to keep in mind that because they are leaders of the country, any statement they make can be seen as reflecting government policy. They have to choose their words carefully.

And if a Canadian politician says that Americans are "bast*rds", if the official government position differs from that statement, then that politician should either apologize or resign, or the government should be willing to rebuke them.