More Fun With "Life" Definitions

[evildave]

http://www.cc.utah.edu/~asn8200/rapid.html

This is a great site!

How long do you suppose until we have these 3D prototyping machines that can make these 3D prototyping machines?

I vote "within 30 years", but that's "off the cuff". A lot of material science and evolution of this technology would need to preceed that.

At that point, will it be "life"? Probably not. Someone would still need to "feed it" by hand. It would be utterly dependent on its "keeper" (and external computer) for the nurishment it requires for its reproduction. For even the "desire" to reproduce.

Perhaps a robot that independently sought power and consumables based on some "feedback", that could produce more of its self? It would blur the line in interesting ways. Something that could do so in space would be extremely useful.

I know, it's a silly "Sci-Fi" question, but it's the sort of thing that could push some imaginitive people to "grow" this science and technology.

Especially because I want one. More precisely, an "EZ-Bake" toymaker that I could teach to make more interesting toys. The present technology is interesting, but I want more out of it, and (naturally) for a lot less money

I want to design and "print" my computerized toys. Including bigger, cooler versions of these printers.

 

[Atlas]

I didn't see if there is a 3d reader attachment that can code up existing objects that might be tweaked designwise and "re-printed." But if someone hasn't got that I'm sure it's next.

It reminds me of first generation star trek replicators.

Right now it'll only replicate your cup out of some ez-bake plastic, but soon with molecular restructuring it'll fill that cup with coffee.

Ok, the molecular structuring may be later than sooner, but I bet it comes before warp speed engines -- that's all I'm saying.

 

[evildave]

All I'd really want (near term) is some combination of fusing metal dusts, depositing certain other carbon, silicon, certain other elements, and a small variety of useful polymers and ceramic bases. To make sturdy models.

With a reasonable resolution. Say down to one micrometer per voxel of deposited matter.

Then it could construct 3D non-linear electronic circuits, motors, sensors and batteries/fuel cells.

With that much, it could finish a production run by making an army of tiny "critters" that are pre-programmed to go scoop bits of the "filler" junk out, so your (empty) coffee cup is delivered ready for your immediate use.

Then what it needs is some means of sorting "contaminated" toner, and making other things into more toner. I.e., right next to your "printer", you'd want a "shredder" that reduced things back down to raw consumables again.

All it is, is a matter of evolving the technology. Higher resolutions plus more kinds of fusing and depositing will yield more robust capabilities to make ever sturdier models. Soon this could be the primary means of consumer and even industrial production.

Need a new fuel cell for your car? Phone the parts shop, and they'll print one up for you. Unless you happen to have a heavy machine printer in your own garage...

If the raw-material processing can be totally automated, and made to work in zero gravity, we could start economically building space habitats and vehicles from near-earth asteroids.

 

[Wrath of the Swarm]

No thanks! The last thing the universe needs is genuine astrochickens. Von Neumann has a great deal to answer for...

 

[Atlas]

If the raw-material processing can be totally automated, and made to work in zero gravity, we could start economically building space habitats and vehicles from near-earth asteroids.

I like this idea. The way I like to think about it, two robots go to the moon. One robot "printer" stamps out solar cells from the lunar soil and one robot makes large lunar igloos for habitation out of the lunar soil. Humans land to hook up the cells to a microwave transmitter and live there to manage the station.

It's not the same thing as mining for helium-3 like Bush plans for the lunar mission.

 

[evildave]

It's a good idea, but the melting would probably be better done from orbit.

Lots of mirror satellites with a command system. These would also provide a 'GPS' capability to some centimeters of precision. From low lunar orbit, they would simply bounce sunlight onto various spots on the moon, on demand.

The mirrors should be compound mirrors. It helps the accuracy a lot, and you only have to "steer" itty-bitty mirrors. Make a mirror out of an array of lots of smaller mirrors, and it can cast light onto multiple points, or focus all of its light to a single point, and turn the light "on" and "off" almost instantly. A bit like a DLP chip. If a few mirrors fail, the whole thing isn't busted.

All the segments can point towards and track on a single point, multiple points, or pivot away. If they pivot away, negligible light is reflected. If they all focus at the same point, the energy reflected from (however big the mirror is) is reflected down on a spot on the moon's surface the size of your hand. Times however many orbital mirrors are also doing this to the same spot.

Since there is no lunar atmosphere, they can orbit the moon less than a mile up (if desired), and use solar wind to slowly change their orbit by acting like a sail. That's one of the little technical challenges of mirrors like this. Getting them to stay put. A lot of their cycle will need to be planned out to "balance" what they do. If it's doing something to the north, it will need to do something to the south, too, or waste cycles doing "nothing" but correct its position.

So, routinely, they would beam sunlight down on various surfaces to melt lunar dust for the solar panels, just as you say (but without mechanical parts exposed to lunar dust). And on demand, they could also focus on various points for direct heat.

Then all machines have to do is pile up a thin layer of dust in a uniform disc shape, then get out of the way while "walls" are melted into the dust. It would build up as a gentle mound (easy for solar powered robots filled with dust that was collected and loaded off-site to roll across and level out). Probably with some precisely placed devices, like mirrors and lasers to provide feedback to the satellites for better tracking accuracy, and keep everything level. Just build up a gentle mound on the site, layer by layer with dust. A lot like the "3D printer" solution already described, except on a huge scale. The satellite cycle passes, more dust is added, then waiting for the next. Outside and inside walls are made at the same time. Then people go in and scoop the dust out of the doorways, windows, etc. inside of the fused part when it's all done, and paint on a membranes to keep the air from seeping out, and add whatever doors and accessories are standard and/or desired.

If you want to put in "big" equipment, but have small doors, simply stop the construction cycle partway through, dig out access to the space and the space, install the equipment, cover it, and continue.

If you want it to build "underground", simply start with a crater and build up until it's filled. The lower levels can certainly be occupied while upper levels are still being constructed.

Sure it would take literally weeks to build a very small structure, and months to decades to make a large and complex one, but robots are patient.

Most structures are far better off left buried. For radiation, insulation, and the fact that they can be covered in more equipment and solar collecting material. The only signs that a colony exists would be in the form of a landing site and road beds leading to some gently rolling hills with some openings.

Besides providing a place to put solar collectors, the dust melting would allow for controlling lunar dust around established sites of habitation. Want more dust? Crack the shell and there's all the dust you could want. It's only eggshell thin in most places that aren't supposed to be road beds, anyway. Scraping soil off one place makes a place to build the next thing.

As potentially "awful" as it sounds, it's not really suitable as a weapon. Since the light could only really stay concentrated on pre-programmed points, and melt only some millimeters of lunar soil at a time, you couldn't do much "terrorizing" with it. Once a dome with three-foot-thick walls and buried in a mound of soil is finished (there's no reason to remove the outside soil), the mirror system would not be able to do anything about taking it back down again, except perhaps by being programmed to (eventually) crash into it. A waste of an expensive and valuable piece of equipment.