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Moral sense comes from the knowledge of good and evil. Would you give it up?

Greatest I am

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Moral sense.

Moral sense comes from the knowledge of good and evil. Would you give it up?
Mark Twain/Samuel Clemens said:
The Church still prizes the Moral Sense as man's noblest asset today, although the Church knows God had a distinctly poor opinion of it and did what he could in his clumsy way to keep his happy Children of the Garden from acquiring it.
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How many of us would give up our moral sense and return to animal ignorance or instincts that live without it.
I would not because it tells me why I follow God.
Would you prefer to be a sheep and follow God without knowing why?

Regards
DL

DL, I strongly suggest you give credit where credit is due, and not attribute things like this to yourself. Aside from being honest, doing otherwise is a copyright violation. I have edited the above remark and put it in a quote box to provide that insight.

The above quote can be found here, for those who are interested in Mark Twain's take on religion.
Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: jmercer

 
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Civilization is 99% beating down the animal instinct to take that which you did not work for.

Just because one is too stupid to recognize the value in not attacking others doesn't mean it doesn't hurt when someone attacks you. In losing this "sense", you would thus increase your misery, even though you didn't understand why.
 
I recognise that there is no god. I value strongly my moral sense, which is part of why I know there is no god.
 
Beerina said:
Civilization is 99% beating down the animal instinct to take that which you did not work for.

Just because one is too stupid to recognize the value in not attacking others doesn't mean it doesn't hurt when someone attacks you. In losing this "sense", you would thus increase your misery, even though you didn't understand why.
Click to expand...

So Eve did the right thing?

Regards
DL
 
Greatest I am said:
Moral sense.

Moral sense comes from the knowledge of good and evil. Would you give it up?
The Church still prizes the Moral Sense as man's noblest asset today, although the Church knows God had a distinctly poor opinion of it and did what he could in his clumsy way to keep his happy Children of the Garden from acquiring it.
How many of us would give up our moral sense and return to animal ignorance or instincts that live without it.
I would not because it tells me why I follow God.
Would you prefer to be a sheep and follow God without knowing why?

Regards
DL
Click to expand...
Are you trying to say unless we believe in the old guy in the sky we would have no morals? If that is your argument it has absolutely no merit.
 
Greatest I am said:
God had a distinctly poor opinion of it and did what he could in his clumsy way to keep his happy Children of the Garden from acquiring it.
Click to expand...


So God was just clumsy when he created a big tree with juicy fruit and then told Adam and Eve not to eat it? If God had really done all he could, he might have just not created a big, huge forbidden tree. It seems to me that failing to include a magic utopia-ending tree has to require less energy than including one.

Of course, this board may not be the best place to discuss God as though the assumption has already been made that he exists.
 
Greatest I am said:
Moral sense comes from the knowledge of good and evil.
Click to expand...
I'm working my through The Moral Animal by Robert Wright right now. It's a popularized book about evolutionary psychology. It is sort of Ev Pysch's version of Hawking's A Brief History Of Time.

Granted, I'm only about 100 pages into it, but I'm thinking Wright would disagree with the above assumption. From what little I've gathered, moral sense appears to be a largely unconscious process that is cognitively rationalized post hoc based on social norms.

In other words, we don't have moral sense because we know good from evil. Our species has developed a strategy that is optimal for us to survive and we subsequently have labeled those things that help us survive (as we consciously understand them) as "good" and those things that hurt our survival as "evil". Several cultures then attribute this understanding to whatever relevant god that is prevalent in that culture.
 
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I liked Douglas Adams (via Ford Prefect) making the point that it had to end sooner or later. If Adam and Eve hadn't eaten the fruit, it would have been something else. Ford described God as (and I'm paraphrasing from memory here) having that mentality of someone who leaves hats on the sidewalk with bricks under them. Brilliant.

The more I think of that whole Garden of Eden story, the more I think it's not meant to be literal, and not even meant to be allegory. I think it's an amazing Jewish koan.



... I googled it - the chapter is here. It's too long to cut and paste.
 
Greatest I am said:
Moral sense.

Moral sense comes from the knowledge of good and evil. Would you give it up?
The Church still prizes the Moral Sense as man's noblest asset today, although the Church knows God had a distinctly poor opinion of it and did what he could in his clumsy way to keep his happy Children of the Garden from acquiring it.
How many of us would give up our moral sense and return to animal ignorance or instincts that live without it.
I would not because it tells me why I follow God.
Would you prefer to be a sheep and follow God without knowing why?

Regards
DL
Click to expand...

If you are going to quote someone else (Mark Twain - Letter III, I think) at least have the honesty and decency to acknowledge his work.

Mind you, honesty is not one of the most obvious qualities of a god follower.

Where does stealing another persons work fit into your moral sense?

Is stealing someone elses work good or evil?

.

ETA: Reported
 
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Greatest I am said:
We all follow a God.
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No, we don't.

Greatest I am said:
He can de defined as a philosophy.
Click to expand...

Or apparently as just about anything else as well. Since it's all made up, any definition is kind of moot.

Greatest I am said:
We all follow some kind of philosophy.

Regards
DL
Click to expand...

Possibly true, but I don't see where you've explained that this god thing had anything to do with it.



"I have gained this from philosophy: that I do without being commanded what others do only from fear of the law." - Aristotle
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Xtians don't appear to understand that this philosophy is different and far superior to anything their Big Book of Fairytales has to say.
 
~enigma~ said:
Are you trying to say unless we believe in the old guy in the sky we would have no morals? If that is your argument it has absolutely no merit.
Click to expand...

This is not what I am saying at all.

I am saying that any moral system be it religious or philosophical, if there is a difference, needs knowledge of good and evil.

I am asking if Eve did the right think in reaching for this knowledge or not.

Regards
DL
 
H3LL said:
If you are going to quote someone else (Mark Twain - Letter III, I think) at least have the honesty and decency to acknowledge his work.

Mind you, honesty is not one of the most obvious qualities of a god follower.

Where does stealing another persons work fit into your moral sense?

Is stealing someone elses work good or evil?

.

ETA: Reported
Click to expand...

Doing it TWICE... Is that more moral, more good or more evil?

.:mad:
 
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Upchurch said:
I'm working my through The Moral Animal by Robert Wright right now. It's a popularized book about evolutionary psychology. It is sort of Ev Pysch's version of Hawking's A Brief History Of Time.

Granted, I'm only about 100 pages into it, but I'm thinking Wright would disagree with the above assumption. From what little I've gathered, moral sense appears to be a largely unconscious process that is cognitively rationalized post hoc based on social norms.

In other words, we don't have moral sense because we know good from evil. Our species has developed a strategy that is optimal for us to survive and we subsequently have labeled those things that help us survive (as we consciously understand them) as "good" and those things that hurt our survival as "evil". Several cultures then attribute this understanding to whatever relevant god that is prevalent in that culture.
Click to expand...

You say we don't have moral sense because we know good and evil and then you say that we use what we conciously understand as good and evil.

Duh. You will have a hard time understanding that book I think.

Regards
DL
 
H3LL said:
If you are going to quote someone else (Mark Twain - Letter III, I think) at least have the honesty and decency to acknowledge his work.

Mind you, honesty is not one of the most obvious qualities of a god follower.

Where does stealing another persons work fit into your moral sense?

Is stealing someone elses work good or evil?

.

ETA: Reported
Click to expand...

Not having created any words at all I am always using someone elses works.

I am happy to admit that I get all information and words from others.

Actually you surprise me. I had a much lower opinion of you from your previous interjections. That is why I ignored most of them. Good for you.

Regards
DL

DL, keep in mind that using quotes without giving credit is against your membership agreement. Don't do it.[/quote]
Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: jmercer
 
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Akhenaten said:
Possibly true, but I don't see where you've explained that this god thing had anything to do with it.
Click to expand...


Is it true or not?

Some personafy God, some look at Bibles as works of pohilosophy. I try to speak to all.

Regards
DL
 
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