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Moral Relativism

arthwollipot

Observer of Phenomena, Pronouns: he/him
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Recently on CreationTalk I was challenged about moral relativism. Since I am a relativist, and quite a forthright and outspoken one, I wrote this opinion piece. I also posted it on my LiveJournal and on the Atheism Community where it engendered 120-odd responses and a spin-off thread.

It's quite long, so feel free to totally ignore this thread if you don't want to read it. :)

0. Introduction

Premise: Morals are relative, not absolute. They are relative to religion, they are relative to society, and they are relative to time. I will cover all three aspects of moral relativism in this article, since they are all related.

Morals are incredibly complex. What is considered moral by one person, one church or one society will not necessarily be considered moral by another person, church or society. There is moral ambiguity everywhere. Some moral structures will agree on some points and disagree on others. Some acts will be considered immoral in some circumstances and moral in others. I will use the phrase "moral complex", both to signify that this is a complex idea, and because any structure of morals will consist of a large number of interconnecting parts.

I will establish in this article three items: First, that morals are derived from religion. Second, that they sustain society. Third, that they change over time. By these three facts it will be seen that any conception of "absolute" morals is at best parochial and at worst fodder for war and conflict.

I will present two examples of extinct moral codes - the Japanese Bushido and the Old Religion of Fiji - and demonstrate that the behaviour that was engendered by these moral complexes was, at that time and in that place and to those people, equally moral regardless of how we now view these behaviours.

In this discussion I hope that the reader will glean the critical subtext of how important morals are to a stable society. Any conception that atheists or moral relativists are immoral must be wrong, since this would equate them with anarchists, which is both untrue and insulting to most atheists and moral relativists.

1. Definitions

Moral adj.
1. Of or concerned with the judgment of the goodness or badness of human action and character: moral scrutiny; a moral quandary.
2. Teaching or exhibiting goodness or correctness of character and behavior: a moral lesson.
3. Conforming to standards of what is right or just in behavior; virtuous: a moral life.
4. Arising from conscience or the sense of right and wrong: a moral obligation.
5. Having psychological rather than physical or tangible effects: a moral victory; moral support.
6. Based on strong likelihood or firm conviction, rather than on the actual evidence: a moral certainty.

Let's discard 5 and 6 for the moment, since they are irrelevant to our discussion. From the bare dictionary definition, it is clear that the word "moral" is a descriptor of what is "right" or what is "good". Those terms themselves can have ambiguous definitions, but for the purposes of this discussion, I will assume that we all know what these terms mean. However, I will return to them shortly.

Note that there is nothing in this dictionary definition (which I got from dictionary.com) that mentions God or any external source or influence. That's OK - it's just a dictionary, and if we relied purely on dictionary definitions, the language would stagnate. The term is replete with religious connotations in most peoples' minds, and for good reason.

Most people believe that the "moral complex" is handed down to us by a deity. In modern "western" society, this is generally assumed to be the Christian God (or the Islamic God or the Hebrew God, which pretty much amount to the same thing). This deity gave humanity commands and prohibitions. As such, the moral complex is absolute. God says what is right and what is wrong - what is Good and what is Evil, and this is immutable and unchanging.

However, the so-called absolute moral code has changed since the time of Moses. The Hebrews of the Old Testament were forbidden to work on the Sabbath, under pain of being stoned to death. We no longer believe that that is an absolute requirement. They were prohibited from eating shellfish, or from trimming their beards. They were required to be circumcised - as a moral requirement, not a practical or a legal one. Circumcision represented the Hebrew's covenant with God. It also, of course, had a practical consideration (you don't want to get sand in there) but that was not the reason Hebrews were circumcised. They were circumcised as a moral command.

This brings us to the difference between a moral command and a moral prohibition. In the former, you do something because you believe that it is right. In the latter, you don't do something because you believe that it is wrong.

2. Different religions have different morals

Today, it appears that moral prohibitions are more important than moral commands. Don't kill, don't steal, don't abort a pregnancy, don't wear a hat in church, etcetera. However, this is only from our point of view, and in fact it is erroneous.

Islamic fundamentalists have a moral command to kill the unbelievers. This is a command that was given to them by God - a covenant. They fully and completely believe that they are doing God's work by detonating bombs in Jerusalem restaurants.

Charles Manson (as far as can be told) believed that he had a moral command to bring about the apocalypse.

I'm going to exclude Hitler and the Nazis from the discussion for the moment, since it is pretty clear that Hitler's path was a social one, rather than a religious one. My main point is that different religions have different moral complexes (different social philosophies have different moral complexes as well, but I'll leave that can of worms closed for the moment).

Every religion believes that its moral complex is absolute. Every religion believes that its moral complex is the one and only code that has been handed to humankind by God (or Krishna or Buddha or Confucius or whatever). This is why I say that morals are relative. The only argument that can be made against this statement is "but they're wrong and we're right", which is not only presumptuous, but also incredibly arrogant.

In most industrialised first-world countries (such as the USA, UK and Australia), our civil laws are ultimately based on a religious moral complex - that of Christianity. Other countries (such as Saudi Arabia and Iran) are based on an Islamic moral complex. Up until the last hundred years, China's civil law was based on Confucianism (which I will - somewhat erroneously - class as a religion for the purposes of the discussion). In virtually all cases, civil law equates to religious moral complex.

3. What does this mean?

The common conception of moral relativism is that since morals are relative, you should be able to do what you like with no fear of consequences. This is false.

A moral relativist recognises that the consequences of one's actions are social, not spiritual. If I kill my neighbour and steal all his stuff, no matter how "right" or "wrong" it feels to me, I will be caught by the police and jailed. This means that we are not free to do as we wish, and as a result, we do not wish to do those things that have severe consequences.

Relativism is not an absence of morals, it is a recognition of the source of morals - not God or Confucius, but society.

In Australia, as I mentioned, civil law derives from the Judeo-Christian moral structure. But it is also separated from it. Why the Judeo-Christian? For two reasons: First, it was the dominant structure when our civil law was formed, at the time of Federation in 1801. The USA has a similar history - with the Bill of Rights and the Declaration of Independence drawing strongly from the Judeo-Christian moral complex. The second reason is that the Judeo-Christian moral complex makes for a stable society.

The American Civil War of 1861–1865 was the last time different morals came into major conflict in that country. The morals of the Union triumphed over the morals of the Confederation, and slavery was abolished (how's that for a 10-second summary of one of the most complex conflicts of the last three centuries?). Since the end of the Civil War, there has been no instance where the difference in morals has erupted into open war. Since then, pro-life activists notwithstanding, the US has been more or less stable with respect to its morals (and slavery is now considered immoral). But there are still differences.

Some states do not believe that it is appropriate to execute criminals. Some states do. Take the recent trial of Zacarias Moussaoui - the only person to be tried in the US over the September 11 terrorist attacks. He was eligible for the death penalty under US law. Should he have received it? I'm not going to answer that question, because my morals are not what I want to talk about.

Judeo-Christian morals have emerged out of a pseudo-Darwinian process. Our current moral structure has survived longer (with modifications) than all others. That is purely and simply because it works. Societies based on the Judeo-Christian moral structure are more stable than others, which have gradually disintegrated and vanished. When considering morals, it is enlightening to examine some of those moral structures that have not survived this quasi-evolutionary process.

4. Examples

In feudal Japan, the samurai class had the right to execute those who offended them. They had a duty to obey their lord in all things, up to and including death. If they disgraced their lord, they had a duty - a moral obligation - to extirpate their transgression by committing suicide. Peasants had a moral duty to support their lord by farming rice (which was also used as currency). The lord had a moral duty to protect his lands and his people from invaders - but the individuals under his aegis were ultimately expendable.

This is a very different moral complex than the one now in place in Japan. Although some aspects of honour and face have survived, the samurai class has disappeared, and along with it the casual attitude to individual death. The Meiji Restoration and the Japanese defeat in World War II primarily contributed to this change in moral structure. Since then, Japan has grown to be one of the world's major economic powers, under the stable Judeo-Christian moral complex.

My favourite example of relative morals is the pre-Christian religion of Fiji. Under this religion, people had a moral obligation to cook and eat their enemies. This was not simple savagery - it was an aspect of their religion. By eating an enemy, you denied them entry to the afterlife. Hence, it was a moral duty - a sacrament.

The Old Religion was finally exterminated with the conversion of the King Cakobau in the mid-19th century, and I think that today most of us (including me) would feel that this was a good thing. The Old Religion was not a stable strategy for a civilisation, as evidenced by the fact that before the Christian missionaries arrived, Fiji was a melange of warring petty kingdoms with no structure or history that we would recognise. Hence, although they survived, they did not thrive. Today, although there is a huge number of different Christian, Moslem and Hindu sects represented in the population, they have a "civilised", progressive government and economy, thanks to the Judeo-Christian moral complex.

5. Conclusion

A moral structure is determined by society and its religion, and not by any absolute imposition from outside of society. Every religion claims that it has the correct moral structure, because it is the correct religion, and all the others are wrong, misguided or mistaken. This is true of the Catholic, the Sunni, the Hindu, and the Wicca. It is a defining feature of modern religions that they are all mutually exclusive. Followers of each religion will say that their morals have been given to them by their God, Gods, prophets, or divine revelation.

The conception of "absolute" morals is therefore intimately tied to the conception of "absolute" religion - the belief that one's own religion is the only true religion, and all other religions (and moral complexes) are therefore inferior. This is unsupportable except by blind faith, and it has been the cause of crusades, jihads, pogroms and inquisitions.

Because different nations and societies undergo a Darwin-esque pseudoevolution by competing with one another, those that have prospered in the modern world have emerged the strongest, with the foundations and structures that have helped them to overcome their enemies, build their economies, and create the levels of nationalism and patriotism that define their citizens. It so happens that the modern Judeo-Christian moral complex is fully compatible with these foundations and structures. This is not a coincidence.

In modern times, most religions' moral complexes will generally agree with each other on most points, which may give the illusion that despite differences, they all come from a common source. This is almost true. Currently successful moral complexes are those that have survived the gauntlet of war, economic and social pressure. Since the influences are similar, it is logical that the results are similar. The pressure to change comes from below, not from above.

It should be noted however, how much this surviving moral complex has changed since its inception. Judeo-Christian morals have in their history encouraged slavery, brutality, subjugation of women, crusades, witch-burning, persecution, genocide, torture, murder and a host of other things that today we would consider morally wrong.

It is good for all of us that morals change with society over time. As the society gets stronger through adversity, so does the moral complex. We are the latest incarnation of this trial-by-fire, and after hundreds of years, we appear to be finally getting it right.
 
I've only skimmed over this, but a few comments:

The analogy you try to draw between moral norms changing over time and Darwinian evolution seems like a stretch. Simple change over time is not an evolutionary process. The idea that competing societies create a sort of meta-natural selection seems implausible, as does the idea that the winners and losers in such competitions are determined solely or primarily by the quality of their moral structure. Technological level and access to resources seem much more important considerations.

The idea of moral progress seems inconsistent with relativism. If "objective" morality does not exist, then on what basis can we say, for example, that the passing away of the Old Religion is a good thing? If your argument is that the best moral system is the one which promotes the most stable society, it seems to me that you're not really a relativist, because you have a criterion of value against which all acts and all metaethical systems can be judged and ranked. How is that not objectivist?

If a tendency to produce social stability is the primary good of a moral system, then wouldn't a system that deemphasizes individual rights for the sake of the collective be preferable to what you characterize as the current incarnation of the Judeo-Christian ethic? And with that in mind:
Our current moral structure has survived longer (with modifications) than all others.
Where on Earth did you get that idea? Classical Egyptian society, for example, persisted for millennia with far less social change than has occurred in the Christian world in a mere 2,000 years. On the basis of my recollections from college, I do not believe that the ancient Egyptian ethic was particularly egalitarian by modern standards.
 
Wanted to post a quick reply as I have just seen this thread, and as the previous poster I have just skimmed the first. I had just printed out several long descriptions of Moral Relativism but have not had a chance to read those yet either, but I feel I have come to believe many of the view of Moral Relativism. However, my view is that Moral Relativism is a descriptive philosophy that most of all. You can believe that morals are relative and I believe that is so, but in any society I would say that many (most?) individuals are Moral Absolutist is many ways, else it would not be a very identifiable society. Are there many examples of societies that are largely Moral Relativistic? If there were they would probably have been conquered many thousands of years ago by an aggressive, religious one. Those would be much more cohesive, offendable, and proud to die for their God (could be a ruler God as well).

I believe that societies tend to evolve in their own way. Not as much in recent times due to global communications, but previously much so. This is because moral ARE relative so the morals of societies, left independent to themselves, will drift independently from other societies.

The previous post is correct that there are many factors, which lead to strong societies, one other factor being resources. This is all related to the "fitness" of a society, ..Resources, ..morals, ..Political structure, ..ability to adjust to difficulties.... Over the long term the "fitter" societies will survive and those that do not will be absorbed and have to conform to a different moral system (most likely).

I see that Moral relativism would be essential for international relations and understanding between societies, and understanding sub-cultures within societies. That does not mean you agree with them, but understand that they are not necessarily "evil".
 
In addition criminals have morals as the saying "honor among thieves" points out or the various rules of correct behavior in jailhouses or prisons. This results in problems for many released criminals when placed back in society as they are still living under the moral code of the prison and it doesn't function in normal society.
 
Recently on CreationTalk I was challenged about moral relativism. Since I am a relativist, and quite a forthright and outspoken one, I wrote this opinion piece. I also posted it on my LiveJournal and on the Atheism Community where it engendered 120-odd responses and a spin-off thread.

It's quite long, so feel free to totally ignore this thread if you don't want to read it. :)

0. Introduction

A moral relativist recognises that the consequences of one's actions are social, not spiritual. If I kill my neighbour and steal all his stuff, no matter how "right" or "wrong" it feels to me, I will be caught by the police and jailed. This means that we are not free to do as we wish, and as a result, we do not wish to do those things that have severe consequences.

Relativism is not an absence of morals, it is a recognition of the source of morals - not God or Confucius, but society.


In feudal Japan, the samurai class had the right to execute those who offended them. They had a duty to obey their lord in all things, up to and including death. If they disgraced their lord, they had a duty - a moral obligation - to extirpate their transgression by committing suicide. Peasants had a moral duty to support their lord by farming rice (which was also used as currency). The lord had a moral duty to protect his lands and his people from invaders - but the individuals under his aegis were ultimately expendable.

This is a very different moral complex than the one now in place in Japan. Although some aspects of honour and face have survived, the samurai class has disappeared, and along with it the casual attitude to individual death. The Meiji Restoration and the Japanese defeat in World War II primarily contributed to this change in moral structure. Since then, Japan has grown to be one of the world's major economic powers, under the stable Judeo-Christian moral complex.

Whilst I largely agree with a lot of the points you make, I'm not sure the emphasis on a "Judeo-Christian moral compex" is pertinent to the case of Japan. About 80% of japanese regard themselves as Buddhist and about 75%as Shinto.....and the moral code in japan still has its roots in Bushido - the moral warrier code....(http://mcel.pacificu.edu/as/students/bushido/bindex.html)
the country does not seem overly-influenced with Judeo-Christian morals....

For example,
each year over 30,000 people (mostly men) commit suicide....and whilst it's hardly embraced, it's does not have the same moral stigma as in the west. Honour remains a very important part of society - and so middle aged men who are sacked, and unable to look after their wife and children (their societal obligation) will more readily turn to suicide than in the west, as a way of preserving their and their forefather's honour....
that's just one example off the top of my head from my time there....but there are a great deal of ways in which japanese society doesnt fit a judeo-christian moral framework....:)
in fact japan is pretty much a moral relativist country - people don't commit crimes because of any rigid religious moral dogma....but just because it's been decided as "wrong" by society......and there is huge social pressure on everyone to conform to this predecided moral framework - or risk bringing shame upon their family, friends, school, co-workers, region etc.

an annectdote about morals...
an unlocked bike in the UK would last about 2 minutes - because society has decided that basically, if you leave a bike unlocked then you deserve to have it stolen....it's almost not even a crime.....
in japan, a bike being stolen is a really big deal....i had stolen once, reported it to the police just for insurance purposes...only for them to launch a proper investigation....1 1/2 hr interview (true!) followed by a ride in a policecar to the "crime scene" (yes officer - that bit of tarmac there - that's where it used to be...."), the officer and i waited whilst a second cop came to take pictures and to look for clues....and this wasn't in some paddy field village - but a city of over 1million inhabitants......and they found it within a week :) That's a kinda indication of how little crime there is in japan - and due largely IMO to their social morality)
 
I think that a major problem (there are others, but they're harder for me to explain) with moral systems which use society as their ultimate basis is that they run into a rather serious snag when discussing whether society itself should change. If the ultimate basis of morality is society, then on what basis can we judge a society itself to be good or bad?

And indeed, the act of molding society is something that cannot be ignored. Societies are not static things, but instead are entities which evolve over time through the actions of the people in them. The evolution and construction of society is a huge part of life, and thus any moral system which simply takes society as given is limiting itself to a rather tight area.

I have sympathy for moral relativism, because the opposite extreme (moral absolutism) isn't very good either, as it leads to closemindedness and conflict. But I don't think it's really the right solution, because it's just so limited.

My own ethical leanings are towards utilitarianism as an absolute morality, which personally I think makes a nice compromise. Even though utilitarianism claims that an absolute morality exists, (the actions which maximize the collective happiness of all persons summed over all potential futures are most moral) the question of what this absolute morality actually is is kind of an open question, and nobody really claims to be able to calculate the relevant felicific calculus in all possible situations.
 
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Whilst I largely agree with a lot of the points you make, I'm not sure the emphasis on a "Judeo-Christian moral compex" is pertinent to the case of Japan. About 80% of japanese regard themselves as Buddhist and about 75%as Shinto.....and the moral code in japan still has its roots in Bushido - the moral warrier code....(http://mcel.pacificu.edu/as/students/bushido/bindex.html)
the country does not seem overly-influenced with Judeo-Christian morals....

Thanks for the insight into Japanese society - having never lived there I don't have first-hand knowledge. But I'd like to say a few things.

First, "Judeo-Christian" in name it might not be. But practically it turns out very similar. This is part of the convergence I described in the last part of my article. I use "Judeo-Christian" as a convenient label because in my country and in the ones I hear most about (US and UK) it is dominant. But it doesn't exclude the Buddhist moral complex - which by the way I consider superior - which encompasses much of the same area.

And yes, I am aware that the modern Japanese moral complex still has its roots in Bushido, and suicide is much more "morally acceptable" than it is in the Judeo-Christian system where suicide is generally regarded as a mortal sin - basically an ideal way to send yourself straight to hell with no possibility of redemption. But it still remains that you can no longer kill someone for insulting your honour and get away with it. There is no longer a class stratification between the samurai, who were allowed to kill with impunity, and the peasants, who weren't.
 
I think your essay is very well considered and complete, but I came to a full stop at this section:

In most industrialised first-world countries (such as the USA, UK and Australia), our civil laws are ultimately based on a religious moral complex - that of Christianity.

I don't think this is correct. Fristly, no one has yet been arrested for coveting, ad no one has yet been imprisoned for adultery. Here in the U.S.A., and in the United Kingdom, we're based on english common law, which predates Christianity in the Brittish isles. It even contained the concept reciprocity (in the form for weyrgeld, or however it's spelled), rather than the monotonous list of proscriptions for stoning the Bible recomends.
 
Very good arthwollipot!

Relativism is not an absence of morals, it is a recognition of the source of morals - not God or Confucius, but society.

And I'd personally also add nature itself to that list.
 
What are nature's morals, pray tell?


OP:
Not too bad. I wouldn't call the American Civil War's ending a 'Moral Victory'. The North's morals didn't prevail. They simply killed a bloody lot of Southern folks. The North's victory wasn't a decision based on morals. It was an act that took place by blood, and cannon, and rifle, out on the battlefield. In fact, slavery was barely a consideration in the war. It had more to do with State's rights. Check out the Dredd Scott case. In the decision of that case, the US Supreme Court, who was, at that time, predominately Southern in makeup, tried to force slavery on the North. The Northern states believed that individual states should make up their own mind on the slavery issue.

To say the war was about slavery is to fall into the hundred+ year old propaganda mill run by the Abolishionist movement. It was they who tried to declare it a holy war.

Lincoln made no secret that is keeping slavery would have secured the Union, he would have done so.

The rest seems ok, though I'm not sure how Judeo-Christian Japan is, but someone else already covered that.

I think an interesting point to look at is how different gestures in different countries are considered rude, or not, based on culture. This is another moral judgement, after all.
 
I think your essay is very well considered and complete, but I came to a full stop at this section:



I don't think this is correct. Fristly, no one has yet been arrested for coveting, ad no one has yet been imprisoned for adultery. Here in the U.S.A., and in the United Kingdom, we're based on english common law, which predates Christianity in the Brittish isles. It even contained the concept reciprocity (in the form for weyrgeld, or however it's spelled), rather than the monotonous list of proscriptions for stoning the Bible recomends.
Those laws may have existed long ago but today the law makers frequently covet and commit adultery and use the lord name in vain and so laws are not made about those things. Perhaps you are talking about the legal system and not the moral system.
 
The idea of moral progress seems inconsistent with relativism. If "objective" morality does not exist, then on what basis can we say, for example, that the passing away of the Old Religion is a good thing? If your argument is that the best moral system is the one which promotes the most stable society, it seems to me that you're not really a relativist, because you have a criterion of value against which all acts and all metaethical systems can be judged and ranked. How is that not objectivist?
(note: there will be a distinct lack of clickable URLs due to my low post count)

First, the idea of progress towards or away from a given set of criterion in a relative system is generally well-defined provided you have some sort of scheme for measuring things. Granted, getting a bunch of naked apes to agree on such a scheme is non-trivial (in the mathematical sense), but that just opens yet another interesting field of scientific endeavour. :D

Second, describing a set of morals as "objectivist" is likely to be a bit misleading if you were talking about anything other than the stuff Any Rand came up with (h t t p ://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Objectivist_philosophy).
 
Not too bad. I wouldn't call the American Civil War's ending a 'Moral Victory'. The North's morals didn't prevail. They simply killed a bloody lot of Southern folks. The North's victory wasn't a decision based on morals. It was an act that took place by blood, and cannon, and rifle, out on the battlefield. In fact, slavery was barely a consideration in the war. It had more to do with State's rights. Check out the Dredd Scott case. In the decision of that case, the US Supreme Court, who was, at that time, predominately Southern in makeup, tried to force slavery on the North. The Northern states believed that individual states should make up their own mind on the slavery issue.

To say the war was about slavery is to fall into the hundred+ year old propaganda mill run by the Abolishionist movement. It was they who tried to declare it a holy war.

Lincoln made no secret that is keeping slavery would have secured the Union, he would have done so.

Well, I did oversimplify the situation only a lot. :)
 

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