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Monsanto

Bodhi Dharma Zen

Advaitin
Joined
Nov 25, 2004
Messages
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Monsanto, I read more and more and more in social networks about this "evil" entity and how it is being banned in several countries or how it wants to dominate the market and force people to pay them for using seeds, not FROM them but even if "contaminated by nature", and suing small farmers and etc.

Now, while I don't like the idea, at all, of eating food that has been "engineered" in a lab, and worst, subject to patents (I find the concept abominable), I do not know much more regarding why people in general is having such a hard time with Monsanto, I mean, from the point of view of conspiracy theories.
 
Did you mean to start this thread in Economics, Business and Finance?

If so, what's the E,B & F angle?

Cheers.
 
No, I just didn't know where to put it. I thought economics as it is a heated topic because it is money what it's behind wanting to patent seeds (and DNA etc).

Did you mean to start this thread in Economics, Business and Finance?

If so, what's the E,B & F angle?

Cheers.
 
From and E,B&F standpoint, Monsanto has a number of problematic issues arising from it's market dominance and it's abusive legal practices:

1) Monsanto represents a monopoly or near-monopoly/oligopoly in many seed markets. It routinely uses that power to force down/out competition from other companies, much as Microsoft does in software development:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/12/13/monsanto-squeezes-out-see_n_390354.html

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/a...how-monsanto-controls-the-future-of-food.aspx

2) Monsanto abuses patent law and contract rights to unjustly penalize innocent third parties whose non-Monsanto crops become contaminated with pollen from Monsanto originated plants.

http://www.motherearthnews.com/home...ty-in-trouble-zwfz1303zkin.aspx#axzz2UJB8uvcq

http://thegranddisillusion.wordpress.com/monsanto-vs-farmer/

http://www.centerforfoodsafety.org/files/cfsmonsantovsfarmerreport11305.pdf

3) Monsanto seeks to corrupt the political and regulatory process to it's benefit:

http://www.eatdrinkpolitics.com/201...s-up-with-congress-to-shred-the-constitution/

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michele-simon/monsanto-protection-act_b_3327270.html

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/23/monsanto-protection-act_n_3322180.html
 
Monsanto is a favorite target of woos who have little to no knowledge of science, agriculture, or economics and have a knee-jerk reaction to anything "corporate".
 
And certain members of this forum wouldn't admit a business was dirty if it were caught on film wallowing in pig filth...

As usual, you don't even bother trying to refute the facts presented, just throw poo...
 
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Monsanto is a favorite target of woos who have little to no knowledge of science, agriculture, or economics and have a knee-jerk reaction to anything "corporate".
I agree. And posting anything at all from mercola.com automatically loses you the argument. It inhabits the same bucket of pigswill as whale.to. Posting huffpo links is scarcely better. Find some authoritative sources and I'll look at them.

ETA: And by 'authoritative', I mean unbiased. I'm like the OP - I'd actually like to see clear evidence of Monsanto's evilness. Instead, when I go looking for it, I just find the same ole same ole - ignorant rants about GMO/patents/pesticides. For a lot of NewAgers/Greenies, Monsanto has clearly taken the place of Satan.
 
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Monsanto, I read more and more and more in social networks about this "evil" entity...
Well, there's your first problem...

Remember, people posting in 'social networks' don't necessarily have their stuff fact-checked. Those with an axe to grind, or even those just plain ignorant of scientific facts, can put whatever nonsense they want on line, and depending on the forum, nobody will challenge them.

At least here on the jref forums, you'll likely get at least a few knowledgable people responding to 'monsanto=evil' posts.

...and how it is being banned in several countries...
The fact that it (or its products) have been 'banned' does not necessarily make it evil. Heck, the U.S. has anti-pot laws, and most people here think those are foolish too.

... or how it wants to dominate the market...
Ummm.. every company in every industry probably wants to 'dominate the market'.... manufacturers, retailers, drug companies, your local pimp down the street.

Being 'successful' does not necessarily mean that they are doing anything wrong. They could just have a good business model.

...and force people to pay them for using seeds, not FROM them but even if "contaminated by nature", and suing small farmers and etc.
Actually I'm sure Monsanto would love for every farmer to use its seeds. That doesn't mean it's "forcing" them to.

Now, you will occasionally hear claims of "Monsanto sued me just because my fields were contaminated" (or something like that). Keep in mind that:
- Monsanto does pay to have crops removed/replaced if a farmer finds their produce has been 'contaminated' by Monsanto crops in adjacent fields
- When you typically dig a bit more into these cases, you'll find the "poor victim farmer" was often doing things like deliberately replanting seeds, or something like that.

Now, Monsanto isn't a perfect corporation. It just doesn't deserve much of the criticism that it receives.

Now, while I don't like the idea, at all, of eating food that has been "engineered" in a lab...
Why? Do you have any proof that there is any sort of health risk or taste difference?

Genetic engineering, if done right, can be a great boon... farmers can produce more crops on less ground and using less pesticides. It gives both environmental benefits, and can feed more people.

...and worst, subject to patents (I find the concept abominable)...
Why is that so bad?

Monsanto is producing something that has the chance to save farmers money and/or help the environment. Why shouldn't they be able to protect their work?
I do not know much more regarding why people in general is having such a hard time with Monsanto, I mean, from the point of view of conspiracy theories.
Because people are idiots. And they often react with emotion, before all the facts are collected.

Its easy to criticize the "big bad company beating up poor individual X", but often that "poor individual" is actually the one to blame.
 
Monsanto, I read more and more and more in social networks about this "evil" entity and how it is being banned in several countries or how it wants to dominate the market and force people to pay them for using seeds, not FROM them but even if "contaminated by nature", and suing small farmers and etc.

Now, while I don't like the idea, at all, of eating food that has been "engineered" in a lab, and worst, subject to patents (I find the concept abominable), I do not know much more regarding why people in general is having such a hard time with Monsanto, I mean, from the point of view of conspiracy theories.


Why "from the point of view of conspiracy theories" and not actually from the point of view of small farmers getting sued?
 
Monsanto is Evil Incarnate
Money is Evil Incarnate

Money Satan -> Monsanto. Get it??
 
Protesters in over 400 cities march vs Monsanto
AP said:
LOS ANGELES (AP) — Organizers say two million people marched in protest against seed giant Monsanto in hundreds of rallies across the U.S. and in over 50 other countries on Saturday.

"March Against Monsanto" protesters say they wanted to call attention to the dangers posed by genetically modified food and the food giants that produce it. Founder and organizer Tami Canal said protests were held in 436 cities in 52 countries. [...]


If only those poor woos had known that you "debunked" everything, kitten... ;):rolleyes:
 
Monsanto, I read more and more and more in social networks about this "evil" entity and how it is being banned in several countries or how it wants to dominate the market and force people to pay them for using seeds, not FROM them but even if "contaminated by nature", and suing small farmers and etc.

Now, while I don't like the idea, at all, of eating food that has been "engineered" in a lab, and worst, subject to patents (I find the concept abominable), I do not know much more regarding why people in general is having such a hard time with Monsanto, I mean, from the point of view of conspiracy theories.

I don't like monsanto for various reason, but they are neither evil, nor able to strangle the food market.

The math is simple.

either :
1) Monsanto seed are cheap enough : you get more money using monsanto seeds counting all cost (labor, herbicide, tools, transportation etc...)
2) Monsanto seed are too pricey : you get more money using traditional seeds counting all cost (labor, herbicide, tools, transportation etc...)

Traditional seeds won't disappear for a variety of reason. I Monsanto was evil and suddenly jacked their seed price 10* the normal price after having 95% of the market, in 2 or 3 seasons all traditional seeds are back and monsanto ruined because the market will never ever trust them again.

So it is in the interrest of monsanto to keep a price high enough to make money, low enough that traditional seed farmer earn less then with using monsanto seed.

Monsanto is not evil. Monsanto cannot corner the market and have a monopoly. Farmer use the seed enabling them to get the most money. So if monsanto is evil, farmer are too. End of story.
 

he case drew worldwide attention and is widely misunderstood to concern what happens when farmers' fields are accidentally contaminated with patented seed. However by the time the case went to trial, all claims had been dropped that related to patented seed in the field that was contaminated in 1997; the court only considered the GM canola in Schmeiser's 1998 fields, which Schmeiser had intentionally concentrated and planted from his 1997 harvest.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monsanto_Canada_Inc._v._Schmeiser


Laugh as much as you can but Wild Cat is correct. We even had a thread recentely about that here. The farmer used a selection process to get the GM seed.

If he had gathered the seed and jsut replanted it mixed, without using round up to *select* the GM seed, he would have been fine as the court saw replanting seed as a property right.

But he DID select, after seeing some of the plant resisting round up. It was intentional using of the gene to select the plant.

So , laugh as much as you can.
 
Protesters in over 400 cities march vs Monsanto

If only those poor woos had known that you "debunked" everything, kitten... ;):rolleyes:

The marches were protesting environmental damage and health risks, not the (claimed) persecution of small farmers.

I'd guess you read the Schmeiser case and thought "oops", right?

"The court record shows, however, that it was not just a few seeds from a passing truck, but that Mr Schmeiser was growing a crop of 95–98% pure Roundup Ready plants, a commercial level of purity far higher than one would expect from inadvertent or accidental presence."
 

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