Minuteman Project doing anything illegal?

[Ranb]

I have been reading off and on about the Minuteman Project in Arizona. What I keep reading is that people (media) say they are just another illegal vigilante organization. I also keep reading that the Minuteman Project is a threat to the safety of illegal immigrants.

I read about one man in Arizona who held an undocumented alien at gunpoint, and then was himself arrested. He was not a Minuteman Project member.

Has anyone here read anything about any of the Minuteman members engaging in any acts of violence while patrolling the border with their phones and binoculars? Have any of them done anything illegal at all?

Ranb

 

[Bruce]

I haven't really read anything about it. O'Reilly thinks they're heros. That's all I know.

 

[shecky]

I haven't heard of any illegal activity other than the one incident you mentioned.

Then again I haven't heard anybody call them a illegal vigilante organization.

Are they vigilantes? Is illegal to be one?

Frankly, I think they're being unrealistic to condemn illegal immigration as it is, being completely market driven. But if they want to sit in the middle of nowhere peeping through binoculars, more power to 'em. They'll need it in the summer months.

 

[Bruce]

It's another one of those political issues that, while it's important, I'm having trouble gaining interest. Probably because as soon as I say, "Yes, I have a problem with illegal immagrants," I'll immediately get called a racist and get smacked over the head with liberal protest signs until I lose consciousness. Not my idea of fun. I'll stick to the goofy stuff for now.

 

[skepticality]

I think the bigger issue is 'how' the immigrants are coming here. Have you taken the time to listen to, or read the stories of the people that live near the borders and crossing points into the country?

It's a serious problem for a lot of people, and I think that what those guys are doing is acceptable, as long as it's kept to just holding people and calling in the proper authorities to do the work of deportation.

Now, why not just make them volunteer workers, just like we do for firemen and EMT's here, is beyond me. Give them some actual power and rules. Let them be volunteer.

 

[TeaBag420]

I haven't heard of any illegal activity other than the one incident you mentioned.

If it was the incident I am thinking of there wasn't anything illegal about it.

Then again I haven't heard anybody call them a illegal vigilante organization.

Are they vigilantes? Is illegal to be one?

Or even "an" illegal vigilante organization.[/QUOTE]

Frankly, I think they're being unrealistic to condemn illegal immigration as it is, being completely market driven. But if they want to sit in the middle of nowhere peeping through binoculars, more power to 'em. They'll need it in the summer months.

Well, first, a lot of them are sitting on their own property, which abuts Mexico. And when the wetbacks start coming over the border in the daytime, then we can take up a collection to send them fans; until then it's mostly a nighttime enterprise.

They effing live there (well, most of them) you pantywaist. They know about the weather.

 

[shecky]

Or even "an" illegal vigilante organization.

Ha! Made you look!

 

[shecky]

It's another one of those political issues that, while it's important, I'm having trouble gaining interest. Probably because as soon as I say, "Yes, I have a problem with illegal immagrants," I'll immediately get called a racist and get smacked over the head with liberal protest signs until I lose consciousness. Not my idea of fun. I'll stick to the goofy stuff for now.

I don't need a reason to call you a racist.

 

[AWPrime]

Well the minuteman are perfectly legal.

If I was in their position I might not be as nice.

 

[Tmy]

The worry is that their can easily be an illegal incident. It's one thing if they act like a neighborhood watch and call in illegals to the authorities. Its another thing if they take matters into their own hands. Plus they are armed. The fear is that violence will break out.

 

[TeaBag420]

The worry is that their can easily be an illegal incident. It's one thing if they act like a neighborhood watch and call in illegals to the authorities. Its another thing if they take matters into their own hands. Plus they are armed. The fear is that violence will break out.

"Well, we know what motivates the hoplophobe. He simply envies the man who can cope where he, the hoplophobe, cannot. A skilled, armed man lives on a plane of security and contentment different from that of others. This is not egalitarian! The man who cannot cut it, envies, fears, and sometimes hates the man who can." – Jeff Cooper

 

[crimresearch]

The worry is that their can easily be an illegal incident. It's one thing if they act like a neighborhood watch and call in illegals to the authorities. Its another thing if they take matters into their own hands. Plus they are armed. The fear is that violence will break out.

I thought the vigilantes were claiming that the cross border violence has already occured, and they are just defending?

 

[Khalid01]

Well, first, a lot of them are sitting on their own property, which abuts Mexico. And when the wetbacks start coming over the border in the daytime, then we can take up a collection to send them fans; until then it's mostly a nighttime enterprise.

They effing live there (well, most of them) you pantywaist. They know about the weather.

Oops! You're racist.

Am I the only one who noticed this, or does no one care? Is TeaBag420 missing a smiley, or what?

 

[AWPrime]

I thought the vigilantes were claiming that the cross border violence has already occured, and they are just defending?

Well I have heard that the smoggeling gangs are very violent.

So I wouldn't mind them carring guns.

 

[SezMe]

Then again I haven't heard anybody call them a illegal vigilante organization.

Bush did call them vigilantes. I don't think he used the word "illegal" but dictionary.com defines the word as "One who takes or advocates the taking of law enforcement into one's own hands." so the word itself implies illegal.

These minutemen eithe stayed on public property or had permission to be on private property. They performed no illegal activities. They used binoculars and cell phones to report others who were commiting illegal acts. I'm hard-pressed to find any vigilanteism in that.

 

[SezMe]

It's another one of those political issues that, while it's important, I'm having trouble gaining interest. Probably because as soon as I say, "Yes, I have a problem with illegal immagrants," I'll immediately get called a racist and get smacked over the head with liberal protest signs until I lose consciousness. Not my idea of fun. I'll stick to the goofy stuff for now.

If you think it is only liberals who support illegal immigration, you are sadly mistaken. Bush has proposed what is essentially and amnesty plan. McCain and Kennedy have proposed what is, in fact, an amnesty plan. This is one issue where BOTH political parties are on the same, wrong side.

 

[crimresearch]

There is nothing illegal about taking the duties of law enforcement into one's own hands, until it gets to the point of administering punishment, or otherwise behaving in a manner that even law enforcement is not allowed to act.

There is certainly nothing illegal about watching, reporting, arresting, or defending one's self in the same manner as law enforcement.

 

[SezMe]

I think the bigger issue is 'how' the immigrants are coming here.

I think that is, at the national level, a tiny issue. Certainly it is not for the people along the border who are affected.

The huge numbers of illegal immigrants is causing major disruptions to the social fabric in some areas and is a serious problem in others. The former is happening, for example, in southern California. Issues such as health care (and especially emergency care), housing, living wage, traffic, school system, and prison costs are all substantially impacted by illegal immigration. These are major national issues, not localized problems.

 

[SezMe]

The worry is that their can easily be an illegal incident. It's one thing if they act like a neighborhood watch and call in illegals to the authorities. Its another thing if they take matters into their own hands. Plus they are armed. The fear is that violence will break out.

That fear proved unfounded. No illegal actions, much less violent ones, were undertaken.

Contrast that to what happened in Los Angeles recently. The founder of that organization was scheduled to speak and a mob (~300?) of protesters showed up and acted illegally and some were arrested. So, who is the greater threat to law and order, the vigilantes or those who they are trying to (legally) keep out of the country?

 

[skepticality]

Originally posted by skepticality
I think the bigger issue is 'how' the immigrants are coming here.

I think that is, at the national level, a tiny issue. Certainly it is not for the people along the border who are affected.

The huge numbers of illegal immigrants is causing major disruptions to the social fabric in some areas and is a serious problem in others. The former is happening, for example, in southern California. Issues such as health care (and especially emergency care), housing, living wage, traffic, school system, and prison costs are all substantially impacted by illegal immigration. These are major national issues, not localized problems.

I don't disagree that the 'big' problem is the overall disruption to elements of our society, such as health care, taxes, living wage, SCHOOLS especially. Those are major national issues, and I think those issues are being discussed openly, I can't see how many folks don't 'see' the problem, but it is being discussed. Maybe not enough.

My point was that, many of the people that are against stopping the inflow of immigration across random borders in a dangerous manner, do not understand the issue. They don't understand that these people cross over, into peoples homes, steal cars, hide in houses, and threaten families for food and shelter. Steal crops, cause havoc, *because* they are criminals.

I think the 'liberals' that are against the minute man see these people as innocent folk that are just squeaking over the border with the shirt on their back and a dream of American freedom. NO, that is far from the facts, they are criminals, coming here in an illegal way, and they KNOW it. There is entire underground publications in Mexico on how to get into our country illegally, arm yourself, and what to steal when you get here, how to break into homes, and what to look for/how to choose those homes, etc, etc...

Worst thing, some of these are distributed in Mexican government facilities!

Look, it's very easy to cross legally into this country, if you want to be legal. The fact is, they don't, they want to be invisible, not pay taxes, and get all their money back to Mexico, where it spends better. That's illegal, and a stress on our legal citizens. We pay taxes, it isn't unreasonable to expect my government, or even citizens to protect that investment.

Now, is 'wetback' a racist term? Depends on what you mean by it. If you are talking about the true source of the meaning, which is the illegal immigrants that get 'dirty' and 'wet' coming across in nefarious manners. NOPE that's not racist, that's just using a mean description for someone that had a choice, and chose to do something illegal and wrong. Not any worse than calling someone a 'pervert' that dittles a little boy. Pervert is a hateful/mean word, but not racist.

If you call ALL hispanic people 'wetbacks', then you need your head checked.

But, I do not like this trend of calling *everything* racist or bigotry. I find it to not be racist when speaking mean, or ill, about groups of people that make idiotic, and terrible decisions. This applies to 'culture' as well, there are bad decisions made by people in certain cultures, and just not being allowed to point that out, has shut down rational thought in many aspects. I don't find it 'racist' when pointing out bad 'cultural' decisions. Because, culture is a *choice* not a skin color.