Minority Voter Disenfranchisement in Florida?

[Rodney]

[Moved from "The Girl with 'X-ray' vision" thread] See Minority Report -- http://www.manhattan-institute.org/html/thernstrom06-17-02_pr2.htm

Excerpt: "Dr. Abigail Thernstrom, a member of the U.S. Commission on Civil Rights, testified today before the Senate Rules Committee that the Commission’s majority report on the 2000 Florida election used flawed data to justify its preconceived, partisan belief that the election was marred by discrimination and disfranchisement of minority voters. A more rigorous statistical analysis of the Florida voting data found that the race of voters in recent Florida elections was statistically unrelated to the rate of ballot spoilage."

"Commissioners Thernstrom and Russell Redenbaugh today released their dissent from the Commission’s majority report, which alleged disfranchisement of 'countless' minority voters in Florida."

"Their dissent found serious flaws in the methodology and analysis of the Commission’s study of voting patterns and practices. The Commission ignored extensive, unrefuted evidence that the Florida election suffered only from imperfections that were unrelated to race. No evidence supports allegations of disfranchisement or discrimination against minorities."

“'The majority report used shoddy statistical analysis, coupled with anecdotal and unsubstantiated allegations—disregarding the preponderance of testimony—to paint a portrait of disfranchisement and intimidation of minorities in the Florida election that bears no resemblance whatsoever to actual fact,' said Dr. Thernstrom."

"Thernstrom continued: 'The Florida election was, in fact, free of racial bias, and was hampered only by problems that were neither motivated by racial discrimination nor served to disfranchise minority voters. By ignoring this evidence, the Commission has squandered its credibility as a fact-finding agency. We can only conclude that the Commission, as it is presently constituted, is unable to conduct objective research, and hence is no longer able to serve the public interest.'”

 

[Stellafane]

I'm against it, if that's what you're asking.

 

[fuelair]

[Moved from "The Girl with 'X-ray' vision" thread] See Minority Report -- http://www.manhattan-institute.org/html/thernstrom06-17-02_pr2.htm

Excerpt: "Dr. Abigail Thernstrom, a member of the U.S. Commission on Civil Rights, testified today before the Senate Rules Committee that the Commission’s majority report on the 2000 Florida election used flawed data to justify its preconceived, partisan belief that the election was marred by discrimination and disfranchisement of minority voters. A more rigorous statistical analysis of the Florida voting data found that the race of voters in recent Florida elections was statistically unrelated to the rate of ballot spoilage."

"Commissioners Thernstrom and Russell Redenbaugh today released their dissent from the Commission’s majority report, which alleged disfranchisement of 'countless' minority voters in Florida."

"Their dissent found serious flaws in the methodology and analysis of the Commission’s study of voting patterns and practices. The Commission ignored extensive, unrefuted evidence that the Florida election suffered only from imperfections that were unrelated to race. No evidence supports allegations of disfranchisement or discrimination against minorities."

“'The majority report used shoddy statistical analysis, coupled with anecdotal and unsubstantiated allegations—disregarding the preponderance of testimony—to paint a portrait of disfranchisement and intimidation of minorities in the Florida election that bears no resemblance whatsoever to actual fact,' said Dr. Thernstrom."

"Thernstrom continued: 'The Florida election was, in fact, free of racial bias, and was hampered only by problems that were neither motivated by racial discrimination nor served to disfranchise minority voters. By ignoring this evidence, the Commission has squandered its credibility as a fact-finding agency. We can only conclude that the Commission, as it is presently constituted, is unable to conduct objective research, and hence is no longer able to serve the public interest.'”

So, I can assume that the Orlando Sentinels' reports about police "traffic stops" in Orange County black majority voting precincts, reports of similar activity in equivalent precincts in other parts of mid/north Florida and verified information on the utilization of lists of Texas felons to cull voter registration rolls in many of those same precincts (if Florida name approximated Texas name, name was removed - voter arrives at poll and can't vote) were all false!! Wow, that's a load off my mind!!! (Note sarcasm, note also that it has nothing to do with messed up, poorly designed ballots - another problem).
And I don't even like the Orlando Sentinel (the rectums supported Jeb Shrub.).

Edited:es to ed

 

[Gravy]

Not sure if this is the right subforum for this topic.

 

[Rodney]

So, I can assume that the Orlando Sentinels' reports about police "traffic stops" in Orange County black majority voting precincts, reports of similar activity in equivalent precincts in other parts of mid/north Florida and verified information on the utilization of lists of Texas felons to cull voter registration rolls in many of those same precincts (if Florida name approximated Texas name, name was removed - voter arrives at poll and can't vote) were all false!! Wow, that's a load off my mind!!! (Note sarcasm, note also that it has nothing to do with messed up, poorly designed ballots - another problem).
And I don't even like the Orlando Sentinel (the rectums supported Jeb Shrub.).

Edited:es to ed

If what you're saying is true, why wasn't legal action brought in any of these instances to the Florida Supreme Court? Bear in mind that this Court at that time consisted of all Democrat appointees who twice overturned the well-reasoned decisions of circuit court judges (both Democrats) to favor Gore.

Your citing of the "messed up, poorly designed ballots" is a great example of the illogical reasoning I've heard cited on innumerable occasions. Presumably, you're referring to the butterfly ballot used in Palm Beach County in 2000. Who designed that ballot? A Republican turned Democrat -- Theresa Lepore.

 

[valis]

(the rectums supported Jeb Shrub.).

Edited:es to ed

Who is Jeb Shrub, I live in Florida and I have never heard of him.

 

[valis]

So, I can assume that the Orlando Sentinels' reports about police "traffic stops" in Orange County black majority voting precincts, reports of similar activity in equivalent precincts in other parts of mid/north Florida and verified information on the utilization of lists of Texas felons to cull voter registration rolls in many of those same precincts (if Florida name approximated Texas name, name was removed - voter arrives at poll and can't vote) were all false!! Wow, that's a load off my mind!!! (Note sarcasm, note also that it has nothing to do with messed up, poorly designed ballots - another problem).
And I don't even like the Orlando Sentinel (the rectums supported Jeb Shrub.).

Edited:es to ed

Do you have a link to a source of the article. As I remember none of these roadblock stories held up. I have always wondered how they get the black policeman to keep quite as well. I have known some black law enforcement people and I can't see them just standing by silently while operation stop black voters is put in place.

 

[asmodean]

Your citing of the "messed up, poorly designed ballots" is a great example of the illogical reasoning I've heard cited on innumerable occasions. Presumably, you're referring to the butterfly ballot used in Palm Beach County in 2000. Who designed that ballot? A Republican turned Democrat -- Theresa Lepore.

Uhmmm... And because it(the ballot) was designed by a dem turned rep it can't be messed up and poorly designed?

 

[Rodney]

Uhmmm... And because it(the ballot) was designed by a dem turned rep it can't be messed up and poorly designed?

No, it just doesn't prove anything about discrimination. The brief history of the butterfly ballot in 2000 in Palm Beach County, Florida is that Democrat supervisor Theresa Lepore designed it that way because she thought that it would save paper. Her sample ballot passed muster with her colleagues and was placed on public notice for review and comment well in advance of the 2000 election, as was required by law. No one filed a complaint about it. However, when Gore narrowly lost Florida, his supporters charged that the ballot was discriminatory.

 

[asmodean]

No, it just doesn't prove anything about discrimination. The brief history of the butterfly ballot in 2000 in Palm Beach County, Florida is that Democrat supervisor Theresa Lepore designed it that way because she thought that it would save paper. Her sample ballot passed muster with her colleagues and was placed on public notice for review and comment well in advance of the 2000 election, as was required by law. No one filed a complaint about it. However, when Gore narrowly lost Florida, his supporters charged that the ballot was discriminatory.

So why then bring up the "illogical" in claiming it was "messed up and badly designed" when fuelair had this to say when he talks about disenfranchsing blacks:

(Note sarcasm, note also that it has nothing to do with messed up, poorly designed ballots - another problem).
And I don't even like the Orlando Sentinel (the rectums supported Jeb Shrub.).

Maybe some people have made the claim that the ballot was discriminating, but fielair whom you quoted did no such thing. That politicians will grab at any straw to gain/stay in power should be no surprise IMO.

 

[Rodney]

Maybe some people have made the claim that the ballot was discriminating, but fielair whom you quoted did no such thing. That politicians will grab at any straw to gain/stay in power should be no surprise IMO.

The way I read fuelair's post is that, in addition to what he considered to be clear evidence of discrimination against minorities (which I believe has been largely, if not entirely, refuted), there was also "messed up, poorly designed ballots", which may have been discriminatory. No, he didn't say that explicitly, but many others continue to make that charge.

P.S. By the way, the type of butterfly ballot used in Palm Beach County Florida in 2000 was subsequently shown to some elementary school students, and they were not confused by it.

 

[asmodean]

The way I read fuelair's post is that, in addition to what he considered to be clear evidence of discrimination against minorities (which I believe has been largely, if not entirely, refuted), there was also "messed up, poorly designed ballots", which may have been discriminatory. No, he didn't say that explicitly, but many others continue to make that charge.

No, he didn't say so explicitly. In fact, he said the opposite explicitly:

note also that it has nothing to do with messed up, poorly designed ballots - another problem).

Further, the fact the colleagues of the designer of the ballot first passed it, and subsequently judged it poorly designed is not nescessarily
a contradiction. Ever designed a UI? The ppl the UI is tested on may think it is the most intuitive UI ever. Once it goes live you realise that
70% of the users have problem understanding it? There's a saying about hindsight and whatnot which may be applicable here.

Even if a class of firstgraders had no problem understanding the ballot, the same does not nescessarily apply to all citizebs of all ages, and
educational levels or whatever other differences that may come into play.l