Michael Vick: persecuted by PETA?

[Darth Rotor]

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/9854202/Owens-says-NFL-should-reinstate-Vick

I agree with Terrel Owens, a sign that the Apocalypse is upon us.

Here's the deal. Michael Vick is being unfairly persecuted by the NFL, who are afraid of angry animal lovers. He was severely punished for his nasty crime: running a dog fighting ring. Even wrongful death suits often don't amount to damages at this scale for the defendant.

Who are these vicious persons, who love animals and who are willing to continue to wreck the life of a man due to their emotional reaction to his crime, for which he has been punished. What adamantine hearts on display among these allegedly warm hearted, pet loving people.

Even as Vick's sentence was coming to an end, I kept catching news pieces of efforts to influence the NFL commissioner that Vick is not suitable as a NFL player. His significant talent notwithstanding, they are prepared to pursue a character assassination campaign against him to preclude his being employed in his specialty.

Mr Vick not only went to prison, and has paid his proper societal debt as determined by our courts, but he lost (by paying back bonuses, losing salary, and losing his endorsement contracts) something like 40 million dollars.

Let's put this in perspective. If I were to run a dog fighting ring out of my home, got caught, and went to court, to apply 40 million worth of penalty to me you would have to:

Confiscate the entirety of my cash and net worth, and that of my immediate family, and my extended family, and my in laws, and then ... hell, that would barely scratch the surface. We'd need to start in on confiscating the assets of a few hundred of my friends and associates here on the JREF forums.

Vick has done his time, and beyond that paid a steep price for his crime, which is a balance, and possibly out of proportion, to the grisly acts for which he was convicted. Compare that to the punishment for the jerkoff who nearly beat Reginald Denny to death.

Redemption and a chance to make good is part of what our corrections and justice system attempts to achieve. Tossing a con into a screaming lynch mob can be prevented, and the NFL commissioner is in a perfect position to tell the torches and pitchforks clowns to back off.

I doubt he has the balls.

Dear NFL commissioner, PETA, and pet loving persons of America:

Give the man a break, and a chance to show that he is more than just a caricature of a man, painted as your evil cartoon villain, once a dog ring operator, forever a demon. Lay off with the T-shirts and the hate mail campaigns, and be open to his efforts to reform himself.

As TO put it:

"It's almost like kicking a dead horse in the ground. ... The guy's already suffered so much. And to add a four-game suspension on a two-year prison sentence, that's ridiculous"

While suffer may not be the term I'd have chosen, paid his penalty is what he did, the inanity of "start your comeback with a 4 game suspension" is where I and TO agree.

(Once again, expect the rapture, I'd not have predicted that agreement. )

DR

 

[Monketi Ghost]

He's made himself the face of people who cruelly abuse animals for pleasure.

If he works hard, he can redeem himself a bit, but in the eyes of many, myself included, he's forever going to be that NFL star who killed dogs for fun, games, and profit. He may not like it, but that toothpaste is never going back in the tube.

 

[Marc39]

He has paid for his crimes. If he has redeemed himself and shown remorse, he should be allowed to put his life back together.

 

[Drudgewire]

Goodell is one of those guys who can't sleep at night without reminding himself how tough on evildoers he is. I really can't stand the guy.

That said, I think he's between a rock and a hard place here. No matter how he rules, he's facing a barrage of criticism. Fact is, no extra suspension will be seen as "the NFL never punished Vick" by not just PeTA but by lots of fans (most of whom have never spent a day in jail, much less 21 months). If he went a year, it would be seen as too harsh and lead to "hasn't he suffered enough?" criticism.

I hate to agree with Roger on anything, but four games seems just about the best solution. Besides, anyone who thought Vick would be on the field REGARDLESS of who signs him by week five was kidding themselves.

 

[Darth Rotor]

He's made himself the face of people who cruelly abuse animals for pleasure.

If he works hard, he can redeem himself a bit, but in the eyes of many, myself included, he's forever going to be that NFL star who killed dogs for fun, games, and profit. He may not like it, but that toothpaste is never going back in the tube.

I find your approach to this rather narrow.

There are second acts in American lives. What you tell me here supports a view that one cannot change, reform, or improve after falling, being punished, and picking one's self back up. Predestination, huh? Are you a closet Calvinist?

@ Drudge: good points, thanks.

 

[Ocelot]

To be clear about this, I've no idea who this guy is but I find it unlikley that he has actually lost 40 million dollars. It may be more likley that if he hadn't been incarcertated he would have had the opportunity to earn 40 million dollars during that time and he may even have been paid some of that in advance and had to return it but that's not the same as actually having already earned 40 million dollars and having it taken from you. Can someone let me know which it is.

Secondly the fact that he had previously lead such a life of privillede as to have so much to potentially lose does not for me engender any more sympathy than for the thousands of people who leave prison every day, many of whom find themselves with a small one off payment, no job and no home.

 

[Checkmite]

Let's put this in perspective. If I were to run a dog fighting ring out of my home, got caught, and went to court, to apply 40 million worth of penalty to me you would have to:

Confiscate the entirety of my cash and net worth, and that of my immediate family, and my extended family, and my in laws, and then ... hell, that would barely scratch the surface. We'd need to start in on confiscating the assets of a few hundred of my friends and associates here on the JREF forums.

The primary difference being, with Vick they didn't have to confiscate anybody else's cash but his, and despite the large sum he's not exactly living in a shanty now.

I would contend that "paying your debt to society" is not the same thing as redemption; it's merely satisfaction of the debt. Building up societal "credit" again is another issue. I've seen him express remorse, but I'm not convinced that his remorse was over what he actually did, so much as simply over being caught.

I've also not seen anything specific from PETA in regards to this - but I'm not sure I like the "animal lovers = PETA" suggestion.

 

[Cleon]

I wouldn't call Vick "oppressed" in any reasonable sense of the word. He's lost a lot of money - but he ain't exactly living in poverty. If anything, PETA's just being their usual opportunistic selves; they're using Vick to get their name in the spotlight, but really don't care much beyond that.

I really have no opinion one way or the other about whether they let him back in the NFL. Really, that's only half the equation anyway; who's going to sign him? The Falcons already fired him, and any team that hires him is going to have a PR nightmare. The only way he stands a snowball's chance in hell of getting signed is if he finds a team so desperate for decent players that they won't even care about the backlash.

...So I guess he's off to Cincinnati, then.

 

[Monketi Ghost]

I find your approach to this rather narrow.

There are second acts in American lives. What you tell me here supports a view that one cannot change, reform, or improve after falling, being punished, and picking one's self back up. Predestination, huh? Are you a closet Calvinist?

@ Drudge: good points, thanks.

You should be smart enough to know I was speaking about public perception.

Mel Gibson will always be a Jew Hater, Michael Richards will be Crazy Racist... and when people think of Michael Vick they will picture him beating wounded dogs to death, or hanging them... there's a taint, do you see, the taint?

Taint!

 

[IMST]

He's a convicted felon. No employer is required to hire him/hire him back. If the NFL chooses not to, that's their right.

 

[paiute]

Apples/oranges

Even wrongful death suits often don't amount to damages at this scale for the defendant.

Wrongful deaths often result from acts of passion, a human failing that we are all guilty of, even if not to the extreme.

Vick killed dogs for fun, not out of rage. Cold-blooded cruelty is not something we are all capable of.

 

[tomwaits]

He'll get signed by someone. Maybe not as a starter, but pardon me if the prospect of Vick being a backup doesn't make me weep. He shouldn't even be a quarterback to begin with.

 

[Alt+F4]

There are second acts in American lives...

Absolutely, but his might not be as an NFL player. There are many programs out there to help convicted felons learn job skills and find employment.

 

[GreNME]

DR, I understand where you're coming from, as it does seem quite a lot like this guy has been singled out with extreme punishment. However, I don't think that in reality his punishment was all that different in scope (relative to his general wealth accumulation up to that point already), and despite whatever muckety-muck PETA and Friends might be stirring up there is indeed a characterization (separate from PETA) of Vick as a public figure who had no problem forcing dogs to fight and then beating, electrocuting, and killing some of those dogs. PETA didn't create that characterization, publication of details of the criminal case did. What you said about having you, your friends, and your family all hit with confiscations is somewhat comparable-- if you, your friends, and some of your family were either complicit in the criminal activity or were holding assets or money for you as a protective measure. And you know what? The law enforcement would be totally justified in confiscating under those conditions, just like they did to Vick, his friends, and his family. The guy didn't just break state or local law, he did this while crossing state lines, which makes it a federal crime (in this case, a felony). It's a tough situation to imagine, but keep in mind that Vick wasn't in this criminal case alone, and others went down with him.

As for his NFL career, as was pointed out there's no provision that obliges the NFL to allow a convicted felon in their league, and whether or not they choose to is within their rights (heck, some states don't allow felons to vote). Now, considering that I can empathize somewhat with your assertion that maybe this guy deserves a break since he's done his time. However, I don't see how or why this specific person deserves any more of a break than any other convicted felon in the United States. I'm not aware of any special status held by Michael Vick that qualifies him for any type of special treatment as an ex-con compared to thousands of others who have recognizable and somewhat predictable difficulties (and limitations) in what types of work they're allowed to do once they get out. Further, I'm not convinced that Vick should be given any special considerations about his talent when there are so many other talented kids who are currently busting their behinds trying to make the grade for the NFL-- in other words, I'm sure there's at least one kid out there in the college circuit who is at least as talented as Vick was, and they carry less public relations baggage.

So, do I think the title of the thread is accurate? No. PETA may very well be "persecuting" Vick, but the reality is that Vick is facing the challenges of being a convicted felon after prison that most people who leave prison after a felony conviction face. Because it's in the public spotlight, perhaps it has more attention than the thousands of others who have to deal with it, but it's no more special than some no-name guy who's getting out this week or finishing probation tomorrow, and is facing a life where there are jobs they can never get, there are places where they can't live (yes, some apartment complexes are allowed to discriminate), yet there are no cameras or reporters who might be interested in interviewing them to ask how they plan on facing those challenges or positing whether these people deserve some kind of break now that they've done their time. I don't see why Vick deserves any more than those people just because he played football, or was on the television, or was made notorious by his conviction due to his public figure.

 

[drkitten]

Mr Vick not only went to prison, and has paid his proper societal debt as determined by our courts, but he lost (by paying back bonuses, losing salary, and losing his endorsement contracts) something like 40 million dollars.

Let's put this in perspective. If I were to run a dog fighting ring out of my home, got caught, and went to court, to apply 40 million worth of penalty to me you would have to:

Confiscate the entirety of my cash and net worth, and that of my immediate family, and my extended family, and my in laws, and then ... hell, that would barely scratch the surface. We'd need to start in on confiscating the assets of a few hundred of my friends and associates here on the JREF forums.

Vick has done his time, and beyond that paid a steep price for his crime,

Of course, this ignores the fact that $40 million for Mr. Vick is not the same as $40 million for you, and the court recognizes this when it imposes penalties; a wealthier defendant is likely to be given a much greater fine, especially if the fine is imposed as "punitive damages" because it's more likely to deter.

Another way of looking at it, which I think is more reasonable -- if you were to run a dog fighting ring out of your home and spend two years in prison for it, would you lose your job? (I almost certainly would). Would you be able to find another one? (I probably wouldn't; there are too many talented people out there competing for professorial slots, people who don't raise moral issues among the donors.)

So I don't consider it unreasonable for Vick to lose his job and not be able to find another similar job, either. The $40 million loss is a direct consequence of his losing his job; my spending two years in a federal prison woudln't cost me $40 million, but it would probably cost me more as a percentage of my wealth and than it did him.

 

[Brainster]

I think the reluctance to hire Vick may stem more from his inability to pass the football effectively. He's an astonishing athlete, with a gear that nobody else in the league has. But he's not a quarterback and at age 29 I question whether he can be converted to wideout or running back.

 

[roger]

I have a crazy idea. If you are making 8 figures and are a public figure, don't commit felonies.

Another crazy idea. If you want people to think you are reformed, don't say "I am reformed" and wait for the courts to order you to do good things in the area where you did bad things. Instead, just go and do good things, and let the mudslinger sling their mud when they call it a PR stunt.*

Another crazy idea. When you do charity work, show up for it, don't send your mother because you can't be bothered.

Another crazy idea. If you start a charitable foundation, don't spend all the money on a friend's salary to run the organization - instead, do charity!

I got lots more of these crazy ideas.

*edit: it's worth pointing out that he is supposed to be working with the Humane Society on anti dogfighting. We shall see. What a display of vicious, adamantine hearts by animal lovers, btw.

 

[GreNME]

I have a crazy idea. If you are making 8 figures and are a public figure, don't commit felonies.

Another crazy idea. If you want people to think you are reformed, don't say "I am reformed" and wait for the courts to order you to do good things in the area where you did bad things. Instead, just go and do good things, and let the mudslinger sling their mud when they call it a PR stunt.

Another crazy idea. When you do charity work, show up for it, don't send your mother because you can't be bothered.

Another crazy idea. If you start a charitable foundation, don't spend all the money on a friend's salary to run the organization - instead, do charity!

I got lots more of these crazy ideas.

Holey Moley, those are all so crazy they just might work!

 

[timhau]

You mean put your money where your mouth is? Now that's just silly. It'll never work.

 

[pgwenthold]

Another way of looking at it, which I think is more reasonable -- if you were to run a dog fighting ring out of your home and spend two years in prison for it, would you lose your job? (I almost certainly would). Would you be able to find another one? (I probably wouldn't; there are too many talented people out there competing for professorial slots, people who don't raise moral issues among the donors.)

And this is kind of where your analysis fails. Compared to Vick, there aren't a lot of of people who can do what he does. He was, when playing, probably one of the 30 best in the world at his particular job (NFL quarterback). You can't say that.

I think it goes without saying that no one is going to hire Vick if they think they can find someone who will be nearly as good without the baggage. The question is, though, if they think they can't, what should they do?

And let's remember, Vick DID lose his job. He was cut from the Falcons. So the only remaining question is, now that he is out of prison, can he find another job in the NFL?