meditation

[quarky]

This thread is meant to be a side-bar of the consciousness thread, which I thought should have been in R&P, but it isn't, which is why I wanted this thread to be in Science as well.

If it must be moved, I may lose interest.
I would like to explain the point and the process of meditation, and what the experience can tell us about the nature of consciousness.

I expect derision and snideness, which is fine.
Meditation is the observation of the thought process.
Its goal, ultimately, is to free one's mind from the self...to experience reality without the cloud of constant thought process.

This sport is not as easy as it sounds. Initially, the practice simply allows an avenue for the mind (or brain, I guess) to play out its neurotic impulses, in the safety of one's home. One's home can be as small as the space it takes to sit comfortably.

Initially, one needs to find a comfortable way of sitting. Laying down, for instance, generally leads to sleep. Meditation is not sleep...it's a means of remaining aware, while being able to observe the workings of the mind (or brain) and the nature of thoughts.

I'll be back.
I need to do this in bite size pieces.

 

[AlBell]

Om: mani padmi, hum.

or

OM AH HUNG VAJRA GURU PEMA SIDDHI HUNG

 

[mutile]

If you want to discover your true self, or the nature of consciousness, there are two approaches, one is to experience as much as possible and what is common between all experiences is the self, the other which can be through meditation, to remove as much sensory experience as possible and what is left must be the self. Either approach can give you some appreciation of the immutable consciousness.

The good thing about science in determining reality, is that it uses both approaches, by building on previous experiments and knowledge common principles can be discovered and by focusing on a single variable, truth can be obtained with observation much like in meditation.

The problem with meditation is due to the complexity of consciousness a human can not reduce thought and sensory input to focus on a single variable, but in a more general sense insight can be achieved, but it can't lead to objective truth and cannot be passed on.

 

[dafydd]

Its goal, ultimately, is to free one's mind from the self...to experience reality without the cloud of constant thought process.

We experience reality all the time. Why should we have to sit down and stop thinking in order to get in touch with it?

 

[Dancing David]

This thread is meant to be a side-bar of the consciousness thread, which I thought should have been in R&P, but it isn't, which is why I wanted this thread to be in Science as well.

If it must be moved, I may lose interest.
I would like to explain the point and the process of meditation, and what the experience can tell us about the nature of consciousness.

I expect derision and snideness, which is fine.
Meditation is the observation of the thought process.
Its goal, ultimately, is to free one's mind from the self...to experience reality without the cloud of constant thought process.

This sport is not as easy as it sounds. Initially, the practice simply allows an avenue for the mind (or brain, I guess) to play out its neurotic impulses, in the safety of one's home. One's home can be as small as the space it takes to sit comfortably.

Initially, one needs to find a comfortable way of sitting. Laying down, for instance, generally leads to sleep. Meditation is not sleep...it's a means of remaining aware, while being able to observe the workings of the mind (or brain) and the nature of thoughts.

I'll be back.
I need to do this in bite size pieces.

Oh Woota Loon Iam

I like mindullness meditation.

 

[Bikewer]

I'm skeptical of meditation as well; I recall one researcher saying that most all the putative benefits of meditation could be acheived equally well by taking a nap...

However, there have been some studies recently indicating that "mindfullness" meditation can work certain changes in the brain, and there may be benefits to be had. Of course, some of these studies have been carried out by organizations which seek to promote meditation....

 

[brettDbass]

Whatever else, this has the potential to be a very interesting thread.
Looking forward to your next post, quarky.

 

[Spockette]

I didn't realize there was so much skepticism about the benefits of meditation. There are quite a few recent studies of meditation using fMRI that show electrical changes in the brain. Are those not relevant?

 

[Professor Yaffle]

Mindfulness meditation seems to be helpful in preventing depression recurring. I've found it helpful in that respect.

 

[dafydd]

I didn't realize there was so much skepticism about the benefits of meditation. There are quite a few recent studies of meditation using fMRI that show electrical changes in the brain. Are those not relevant?

Perhaps. But meditation does not put you in touch with ''reality''.

 

[casebro]

Yeah, taking a nap is good. Also doing what you like to do so much that you have to force yourself to stop before you pee your pants. Same thing, "being in the now".

 

[casebro]

Mindfulness meditation seems to be helpful in preventing depression recurring. I've found it helpful in that respect.

So does primal screaming, drumming, dancing, 'speaking in tongues' (abble gobble?), jogging, and sex. It's probably that there 'being in the now' thing again. Not worrying about the rent, or the kids, or retirement savings.

I guess I could cancel all that drumming, and all that jogging and dancing while speaking gobbledy gook, If I could just get laid. :^) The neighbors would sure appreciate it.

 

[Bikewer]

I have experienced the "being in the moment" situation many times... While doing art. When I'm painting or drawing, or even some times while reading, I'll become totally absorbed in "doing" and be quite unaware of the passage of time or other inputs like my wife calling from upstairs....
Same mental state?

 

[joesixpack]

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/11/121112150339.htm

This article seems to indicate that meditation changes the way we experience emotion. I can't tell how reliable this research is though, or if there is a benefit in this change.

 

[quarky]

I couldn't get here yesterday. Allow me to explain further:

I'm not talking about the benefits or lack thereof in meditation. I'm trying to make the argument that it is a way to examine the nature of thought, and how the brain works in that regard, and the influence it may have on reality.

If the goal is to make that examination, and ultimately, to experience awareness minus the thought process, which I think it is, some paradoxical situations need to be overcome. We can't think about not thinking. Hence, in the beginning of the quest, various tricks are employed, such as a mantra, which is nothing more than a repetitive thought, either spoken out loud, or in thought. This serves to keep the usual barrage of mental chatter from arising.

Eventually, merely focusing on the breathing pattern can serve the same purpose.
While immersed in that 'non-effort', one notices the relentless impulse towards voicing stray thoughts. One allows them, but is also very aware of them. Eventually, they subside out of exhaustion or boredom or disciplined focus.

This is when the examination of the thought process gets interesting.

I'll be back, hopefully, with the interesting part.

 

[fuelair]

I didn't realize there was so much skepticism about the benefits of meditation. There are quite a few recent studies of meditation using fMRI that show electrical changes in the brain. Are those not relevant?

That would depend on whether those changes have any effect or not and whether the effects (if any) are positive or negative. The brain shows electrical changes most of the time.

 

[fuelair]

Yeah, taking a nap is good. Also doing what you like to do so much that you have to force yourself to stop before you pee your pants. Same thing, "being in the now".

As opposed to "peeing in the now"................

 

[dlorde]

Mindfulness meditation seems to be helpful in preventing depression recurring. I've found it helpful in that respect.

Yes; I've found it useful in reducing anxiety, aiding relaxation, and generally improving mood and affect.

ISTR reading somewhere that daydreaming had similar benefits, so perhaps just 'switching off' or letting the mind wander can be mildly beneficial.

 

[fuelair]

I couldn't get here yesterday. Allow me to explain further:

I'm not talking about the benefits or lack thereof in meditation. I'm trying to make the argument that it is a way to examine the nature of thought, and how the brain works in that regard, and the influence it may have on reality.

If the goal is to make that examination, and ultimately, to experience awareness minus the thought process, which I think it is, some paradoxical situations need to be overcome. We can't think about not thinking. Hence, in the beginning of the quest, various tricks are employed, such as a mantra, which is nothing more than a repetitive thought, either spoken out loud, or in thought. This serves to keep the usual barrage of mental chatter from arising.

Eventually, merely focusing on the breathing pattern can serve the same purpose.
While immersed in that 'non-effort', one notices the relentless impulse towards voicing stray thoughts. One allows them, but is also very aware of them. Eventually, they subside out of exhaustion or boredom or disciplined focus.

This is when the examination of the thought process gets interesting.

I'll be back, hopefully, with the interesting part.

Avoid airports, especially while wearing yellow robes. If you pass Krsna on the road, kill him. Likewise, the Enlightened One. You are a Child of the Universe - and whether you believe it or not the Universe is Laughing behind your Behind!

 

[Alex333]

Meditation has not only benefits but also drawbacks. For example, after meditation for some time person is inclined to accept and act on the suggestions of others. Many cult leaders are using this fact to brainwash members.