Man who played with white lions is mauled to death by white lions

[LondonJohn]

A man described as a conservationist in South Africa, who regularly mingled unprotected with his white lions - presumably under the impression that he'd "tamed" the lions so much that they liked him and would never hurt him....

..... has been mauled to death by those white lions.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-53930125


There seems to be a never-ending supply of idiots who think that their own personal skills and techniques have allowed them to train feral carnivore animals such as lions and tigers (for full-grown examples of whom, prey the size of humans most definitely fall within their dinner menu possibilities).

What's more, they seem unable to learn from history. I presume they think they're somehow "better" at this lion/tiger training game than their predecessors who got attacked and killed by their own animals. And I suppose that they very possibly come to believe, with every day that they're not attacked by their own animals, that they definitely have the magic touch. Until they're mauled and killed.

 

[Thermal]

Well they were right that it wasn't actually leopards that ate their face.

 

[Darat]

I have a cat. She likes to fight with my hand when I'm holding her. She is very gentle and doesn't bite me, literally just puts her mouth around my fingers with no pressure. She is playing. Whilst she is play biting me she will be gripping me with her claws out, which are very sharp, they pierce my skin and scratch me. She is definitely trying to not hurt me yet my hands will often be bleeding after a play. Indeed I've scratches and marks on my hands at the moment because we were playing yesterday morning.

Her claws are like needles - incredibly fine but sharp and strong at the tips, probably something like 4mm at maximum extension. She probably weighs about 3kg.


African lionesses weigh about 125kg, claws are very sharp but more steak knife size than needle size.

Even the most docile and gentle lion that only wants to play, not wanting to kill or hurt could rip the guts out of someone in a second without any effort or thought.


I would love to "cuddle" one of the large cats (tigers are my favourite), would love to pet and stroke them and interact with them.

But I also love having my guts contained within my abdomen, you wouldn't catch me near any large cat unless it was well anaesthetised or behind a strong safety screen.

There is a famous Egyption family of lion tamers - El-Helw - and they've been "taming" lions for literally generations. Do a quick internet search on their name and spot the stories of them being mauled and killed, mind you it is not all doom and gloom some have survived a couple of mauls!

Madness. Admire from afar.

 

[Rolfe]

Point of information. The lions were not strictly feral. They were never domesticated in the first place. A feral animal is a domesticated animal that has gone wild and is living free. Cats, dogs, goats, sheep even cattle sometimes. But not lions.

Domestic cats differ as to how much they'll try not to hurt someone in play. Rolfe had such good manners that he really never laid a claw on anyone (apart from the time a two-year-old tried sticking something in his ear). Jori, my present cat, pulls his punches a lot, although occasionally he gets so enthusiastic I have to remove him from the room. He never inflicts more than a superficial scratch though.

Caramel, who came in between Rolfe and Jori, was lethal. He had no concept of pulling his punches. He'd have you. "It's just his nature" said my mother sadly as she dabbed at her wounds. Several visitors to the house ended up being treated for cat bites. He didn't do play-fighting, he did the real thing.

I wouldn't be too sure any lion was trying not to hurt someone. Some might, but even petter domestic pussies can shred you if they happen to be in the mood.

 

[lomiller]

There are a lot of changes that occur when animals are domesticated that make them both physically safer, less likely to want to harm you and more aware and reluctant to harm you accidentally. Even a friendly wild animal should never be viewed as “safe” in the way a domesticated animal is and even domesticated animals can be dangerous at times.

 

[lomiller]

I have a cat. She likes to fight with my hand when I'm holding her. She is very gentle and doesn't bite me, literally just puts her mouth around my fingers with no pressure. She is playing. Whilst she is play biting me she will be gripping me with her claws out, which are very sharp, they pierce my skin and scratch me. She is definitely trying to not hurt me yet my hands will often be bleeding after a play. Indeed I've scratches and marks on my hands at the moment because we were playing yesterday morning.

Her claws are like needles - incredibly fine but sharp and strong at the tips, probably something like 4mm at maximum extension. She probably weighs about 3kg.


African lionesses weigh about 125kg, claws are very sharp but more steak knife size than needle size.

Even the most docile and gentle lion that only wants to play, not wanting to kill or hurt could rip the guts out of someone in a second without any effort or thought.


I would love to "cuddle" one of the large cats (tigers are my favourite), would love to pet and stroke them and interact with them.

But I also love having my guts contained within my abdomen, you wouldn't catch me near any large cat unless it was well anaesthetised or behind a strong safety screen.

There is a famous Egyption family of lion tamers - El-Helw - and they've been "taming" lions for literally generations. Do a quick internet search on their name and spot the stories of them being mauled and killed, mind you it is not all doom and gloom some have survived a couple of mauls!

Madness. Admire from afar.

Cats are one of the few domesticated animals where killing instinct (or violent tendencies) wasn’t deliberately bred out of them, in fact since killing small critters was one of their functions they are probably more prone to random murder than their wild ancestors.

Conversely dog behavior is mostly a subset of wolf hunting behavior that stops before the kill, or skips over it. The exception to this are breeds used for ratting. If cats are natural serial killers, terriers are mass murderers. After you watch one of these dogs working, it should be immediately apparent what a terrible idea breeding a larger more powerful version with a powerful bite really is. Just as with the wild animals, some people just never get it and think their skills trump what the animal evolved to do or was bred to do.

 

[Brainster]

I have a cat. She likes to fight with my hand when I'm holding her. She is very gentle and doesn't bite me, literally just puts her mouth around my fingers with no pressure. She is playing. Whilst she is play biting me she will be gripping me with her claws out, which are very sharp, they pierce my skin and scratch me. She is definitely trying to not hurt me yet my hands will often be bleeding after a play. Indeed I've scratches and marks on my hands at the moment because we were playing yesterday morning.

Put thick socks over your hand. Both of you will enjoy the fights more. My cat used to pin back his ears when he saw me putting a sock over my hand.

 

[Lithrael]

Yeah, it sounds like one of the lions hit a femoral artery. Even if these two were really his buddies, humans just don’t have the hide for lions in a rough moment.

These kinds of slightly socialized big cats can kill ‘friends’ without intention like this, in play or a moment of frustration/aggression, and it seems they often kill people they haven’t become fond of in play or real hunting behaviors. Seems like a lot of the ones in the news are attacks on people/workers with their backs turned.

And then you have the very unfortunate intentional and mistake attacks where the animal is either genuinely angry or something is up with the trainer where the animal mistakes them for an intruding stranger. I wonder if these happen a lot in places where regular joes are allowed to keep these animals.

 

[casebro]

Call BLM! Call Antifa! Them Whiteys is doing it again!

 

[Rolfe]

Put thick socks over your hand. Both of you will enjoy the fights more. My cat used to pin back his ears when he saw me putting a sock over my hand.

I once put a leather (sheepskin) glove over my hand to try to have a "play" fight with Caramel. When I realised the glove was going to be shredded beyond any futher use if we continued, I quit. That cat had absolutely no inhibitions whatsoever.

Pulling my sleeve over my hand is enough to temper Jori's fun and games. Trying that with Caramel would have landed you in hospital. (And yet Jori is the one with 7% Prionailurus bengalensis - Asian leopard cat - genes, while Caramel was mere moggie, mother out of Battersea Dogs' Home, got out and found a ginger tom in Ashdown Forest. But he was the lethal one.)

 

[Dragon]

I once put a leather (sheepskin) glove over my hand to try to have a "play" fight with Caramel. When I realised the glove was going to be shredded beyond any futher use if we continued, I quit. That cat had absolutely no inhibitions whatsoever.

Pulling my sleeve over my hand is enough to temper Jori's fun and games. Trying that with Caramel would have landed you in hospital. (And yet Jori is the one with 7% Prionailurus bengalensis - Asian leopard cat - genes, while Caramel was mere moggie, mother out of Battersea Dogs' Home, got out and found a ginger tom in Ashdown Forest. But he was the lethal one.)

Caramel was a tom? Probably seeking revenge for being given a girl's name...

 

[Rolfe]

He was a sweetie. The litter were Caramel, Humbug and Treacle. (The girl's name is Carmel.)

 

[Thermal]

Had a good system worked out with my last dog. If I held my forearm horizontal and said 'kill', she could go ape **** on me. When I held a finger up and said 'enough', she would stop cold. Only went south once, when a kid turned her arm horizontal to look at a bug biting her and said 'kill it' or something. I was not allowed to teach the new dog that tradition.

 

[Bob001]

I have a cat. She likes to fight with my hand when I'm holding her. She is very gentle and doesn't bite me, literally just puts her mouth around my fingers with no pressure. She is playing. Whilst she is play biting me she will be gripping me with her claws out, which are very sharp, they pierce my skin and scratch me. She is definitely trying to not hurt me yet my hands will often be bleeding after a play. Indeed I've scratches and marks on my hands at the moment because we were playing yesterday morning.
....

Maybe you should start a new thread about the joys of cat ownership. I would think a pet who draws blood is not something to keep around, especially if you've got a bathtub and a cloth sack. And you know about "cat scratch fever," right?
https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/cat-scratch-disease

 

[Bob001]

Had a good system worked out with my last dog. If I held my forearm horizontal and said 'kill', she could go ape **** on me. When I held a finger up and said 'enough', she would stop cold. Only went south once, when a kid turned her arm horizontal to look at a bug biting her and said 'kill it' or something. I was not allowed to teach the new dog that tradition.

Was the dog actually biting you? And you allowed it? Or did it understand it was a game?

 

[Darat]

Maybe you should start a new thread about the joys of cat ownership. I would think a pet who draws blood is not something to keep around, especially if you've got a bathtub and a cloth sack. And you know about "cat scratch fever," right?
https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/cat-scratch-disease

I think you missed my point. I was trying to illustrate that even our domesticated tiny cats can without meaning to cause injuries, scale that up to the size of these lions and it should be obvious to anyone that you can’t treat them as a pet.

 

[Thermal]

Was the dog actually biting you? And you allowed it? Or did it understand it was a game?

Well I'm no puppy psychologist, but she must have known it was a kind of a game since she backed off when told. But she knew she didn't have to hold back much either. Blood was seen on occasion.

I play Kanga with my sister in laws dog now. Similar rules, but the start is I get into a boxing stance and slap her. Then she goes for my throat.

 

[Silly Green Monkey]

Maybe you should start a new thread about the joys of cat ownership. I would think a pet who draws blood is not something to keep around, especially if you've got a bathtub and a cloth sack. And you know about "cat scratch fever," right?
https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/cat-scratch-disease

I got that from a cat who licked whatever she could reach (I'm pretty sure she frenched me once while I was sleeping) and had a triangle of blisters under my left eye. No scratches required.

 

[a_unique_person]

The famous (in Australia) vet Dr Hugh Worth was always trying to tell people that domesticated animals are still dangerous. They still have a mind of their own. Dogs that people insist are safe may still turn one day and attack. While people are surprised when their animals turn on them, or worse, others, it is really only expected behaviour.

Even experts at zoos with formal safety protocols are killed from time to time.

 

[a_unique_person]

Had a good system worked out with my last dog. If I held my forearm horizontal and said 'kill', she could go ape **** on me. When I held a finger up and said 'enough', she would stop cold. Only went south once, when a kid turned her arm horizontal to look at a bug biting her and said 'kill it' or something. I was not allowed to teach the new dog that tradition.

You should listen to Dr Worth.