Magician's help needed.

[The Atheist]

We've been discussing a "miracle" which occurred during a Eucharist service in France - at Lourdes, of course.

Here's the video - the plate holding the sacred host lifts about 1 cm into the air then stays there:



To me, it seems to have been done like this:



Air cushioning is another explanation offerred.

I'd like to get some professional opinion on how you'd go about this. I don't think it would contravene the giving away of secrets rule as it's a church and a genuine miracle, so we're only supposing how we mere mortals could attempt to duplicate such a divine miracle.

Cheers

 

[firecoins]

I don't know what the exact secret is but it isn't floating. Certainly clear lifts could be used.

 

[Garrette]

I don't know how it was done, but if I were trying to duplicate it I would rig a simple spring-loaded stand. The stand can be thin and clear so it is unnoticeable, but it need not be in this case. Watch the video and notice that you cannot see completely under the levitated plate. There is nothing prevented the back edge from being the support edge.

When I read the title of the other thread this was in, I assumed thread as the answer. That's conceivable, too, but would require some thought on where and how to rig it since the celebrants move around.

Which leads to the last bit: There are a lot of camera cuts, so this need not all be one take.

 

[Rasmus]

I am no expert, but read some of the comments on the site suggesting that this is not a genuine catholic mass we see here.

Magnets might work, you could probably bake them into the host, even. That way, you could actually perform the miracle without the involvement of anyone on stage.

Aircussions would be possible, too, but I guess it would be risky since the host might fall off of the cushion.

Lifting it with 3 small, opaque stilts would probably do the trick. It's only an inch or so in the air, so it would be hard to spot anything underneath the host. Actually, one moving stilt towards the priest would do if it was attached to the host.

Finally, the silver dish on the right is blocking the view to part of the host through the entire video. Lots of space to attach any mechanisms could chose to use.

Finally, am I asked to believe that a real miracle could be observed without anyone so much as gasping? Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight!

 

[Orangutan]

To me, it seems to have been done like this:

[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/thum_1037745c8d3132d66d.jpg[/qimg]

No Not magnets like that. It would break Earnshaw's theorem, which would be a real miracle. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earnshaw's_theorem

However using superconductors it could be done something like this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superconductor. However thats a lot of trouble to go to when as it has been pointed out there are easier ways to produce that effect in the video. Fishing line anyone?

 

[Azrael 5]

The video was annoyingly slow but from what I saw the upwards motion of the Priest's hands at the beginning he was setting something in operation.
I was thinking something like this:
http://www.levitron.com/

 

[The Atheist]

No Not magnets like that. It would break Earnshaw's theorem, which would be a real miracle. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earnshaw's_theorem

Uhh, no it wouldn't. If you read far enough on that Wiki page, you would have got to:

This theorem also states that there is no possible static configuration of ferromagnets which can stably levitate an object against gravity, even when the magnetic forces are stronger than the gravitational forces. There are, however, several exceptions to the rule's assumptions which allow magnetic levitation.

With magnetic levitation as described here (as well as Azrael's post below yours), it can certainly be done.

In fact, now that I see the photo on that page, I am convinced that this exactly what they're up to. Go check it out.

 

[jsfisher]

In the closer views of the host, it appears to be slightly curved. If so, then I'd think an air cushion would be the easiest way to levitate it.

 

[Peter S.]

It looks like air to me as well, especially the way it pops up and wiggles. If it were a real levitation it would rise more smoothly.

 

[The Atheist]

If it were a real levitation it would rise more smoothly.

That bit I agree with entirely.

Your professional opinion is good as well. You don't think compressed air would be a bit unweildy to work in that situation?

I think I'll add a poll!

 

[jsfisher]

By the way, does this discussion fly in the face of the rule against revealing magicians' secrets? I'd think no, since it is about debunking a fraud, but I'd rather not unintentionally disflavor with urine the oaten breakfast cereal of any of the moderators.

 

[Peter S.]

That bit I agree with entirely.

Your professional opinion is good as well. You don't think compressed air would be a bit unweildy to work in that situation?...

I don't think so. Look at the convex shape of the host.

 

[The Atheist]

By the way, does this discussion fly in the face of the rule against revealing magicians' secrets? I'd think no, since it is about debunking a fraud, but I'd rather not unintentionally disflavor with urine the oaten breakfast cereal of any of the moderators.

I can't imagine a professional magician would ever use such a lame trick.

 

[Brown]

I can't imagine a professional magician would ever use such a lame trick.

Really? I can. In fact, I've seen professional performers use any several methods to perform similar feats. The professionals, of course, use more showmanship, and make it seem like a bigger deal than it really is. But the secrets are rather mundane.

 

[The Atheist]

Hope none of them charge to get in.

 

[Orangutan]

Uhh, no it wouldn't. If you read far enough on that Wiki page, you would have got to:
Snip.

Yes, I know, that but thats not what you asked. You gave a diagram that was a static arrangement of magnets that had non of the exceptions that allow stable levitation. If you can get stable levitation with that arrangement I would be very surprised.
So you would either have to be spinning the wafer like the levitron toy, this system would collapse once it had slowed down, or you either need an arrangement of large magnets and a diamagnetic wafer or you need a magnetic wafer and a superconducting material underneath it.
I think that all the above solutions would be far more complex than some other lifting device like a black block, even pins that could come up through the bottom wafer but lift the top would not be seen on that video.
o.


Edit to add, In addition my incredulity comes from owning some of the levitating carbon and toys. The Diamagnetic effect is very small, I do not think you could raise a wafer with it.

 

[Garrette]

I agree that magnets are among the least likely solution. It is physically supported.

 

[Brown]

Folks, if this is indeed a cheap trick, you may wish to consider one of James Randi's favorite stories (and I'm paraphrasing):

Randi was attending a magic act with a prominent scientist. The act featured a levitation by the performer. The scientist was duly impressed, but he remarked to Randi that the performance was risky. Why risky? Because the levitation was obviously accomplished with the aid of magnets, the scientist explained, and such an intense magnetic field could adversely affect those in the audience with pacemakers.

Randi had to patiently explain that the effect was achieved by less--uh--risky means. Rather bland means.

 

[Garrette]

Folks, if this is indeed a cheap trick,

If?

 

[Ocelot]

My vote is for Air Cussion.

I'd also ensure that a camera was pre positioned at a height so that it was already in the narrow angle that allows clear unobscured vision between to two wafers through to the priest robes behind when the host levitated.

After all if the camera was first placed at head height as one would assume is more usual and was then repositioned to have a look between the wafers then that would invite discussion as to what could have happened during the time that the host was first levitated - insertion of props that sort of thing.

That's if I was doing an illusion for an expecting audience.

If I was faking it then prepossitioning the camera at that almost exact angle, focussed on the host rather then the bishops would appear as if this divine miricle was somehow expected. Ahem.