Magician = Skeptic?

[Chris Connelly]

I've just been reviewing and making posts on another forum, The Magic Cafe, and I was stunned by the amount of support for Jim Callahan and opposition to Criss Angel over the fight on Phenomenon on Halloween, 2007. I have always thought of magicians as a skeptical buch (Houdini, Carson, Randi, etc.), but now I'm not so sure. What do you think?

If anyone is interested, I started a thread entitled "Angel vs. Callahan" on the Cafe's "Penny for Your Thoughts" forum a few hours ago and it has already grown to three pages. Almost all the posters have disagreed with my support of Angel and strongly criticized me. I think it would be a good time for those skeptics on this board to voice their opinions in a setting where not all agree. Maybe we can change some minds to be a little more logical. I would strongly urge you to take a moment and go voice your opinions there, wherever you stand. If you're not a member, it takes only a few minutes to join.

Chris Connelly

 

[GeeMack]

I've just been reviewing and making posts on another forum, The Magic Cafe, and I was stunned by the amount of support for Jim Callahan and opposition to Criss Angel over the fight on Phenomenon on Halloween, 2007. I have always thought of magicians as a skeptical buch (Houdini, Carson, Randi, etc.), but now I'm not so sure. What do you think?

If anyone is interested, I started a thread entitled "Angel vs. Callahan" on the Cafe's "Penny for Your Thoughts" forum a few hours ago and it has already grown to three pages. Almost all the posters have disagreed with my support of Angel and strongly criticized me. I think it would be a good time for those skeptics on this board to voice their opinions in a setting where not all agree. Maybe we can change some minds to be a little more logical. I would strongly urge you to take a moment and go voice your opinions there, wherever you stand. If you're not a member, it takes only a few minutes to join.

If there's much (or really any) dissent over at the Magic Café, the thread will be deleted. That isn't a very good place for a debate or to express disagreement. The management has made that abundantly clear. I wouldn't waste the time joining a forum just to participate in a thread which is bound to disappear.

As far as magicians being skeptics, yes there are some fine examples. Penn & Teller, Houdini, and Randi come to mind immediately. On the other hand, there are many magicians who perform what is called "gospel magic", using magicians' effects to illustrate stories from the Bible. Some, like André Kole, even make a good living at it. And there are some well known, very non-skeptical organizations of magicians that actively encourage belief in ancient superstitions, the Fellowship of Christian Magicians being one example.

Welcome to the JREF forum, Chris. Stick around. There are plenty of good discussions for real skeptics here, including a couple of current Angel/Geller threads. You'll find this a much more friendly environment for talking about such subjects.

 

[firecoins]

Being a magician does not equal skeptic. Christian magicians have already been mentioned. Several years ago, Penn and Teller upset this bunch highly at a magic convention. At a tribute to the Amazing Jonathon, P & T did an enactment of Jesus receiving a "Lewinsky" Lets just say many people were highly offended.

There are magicians who want to be seen as having magical power. Uri Geller comes to mind. But many others exist.

Magic Cafe is a horrible forum. Genii magazine is a much better place but you can't discuss politics. Skepticisim may or may not be a good subject there.

 

[athon]

Magicians fall into three categories where this is concerned - those who see the effects purported as genuine by psychics as being indistinguishable from what a magician could do, and therefore ask if it's impossible to tell illusion from genuine claim, how does one claim any psychic claim is genuine. The second school is made up of magicians who believe psychics are genuine, even if their own trickery just resembles it. The third school contains magicians who use trickery and claim it is genuine.

The first one contains skeptics. The second is no different to any other believer. The third are amongst the saddest people on earth.

Athon

 

[Pidge]

There's a magician who does childrens birthday parties around here. Unfortunately, my opinion of him went down a notch or two when I spied a 9/11 bumper-sticker on his car - I can't remember which one, but most definitely a "truther" one.

 

[jimtron]

Magic Café threads I've unfortunately wasted time on:

Palmistry is scientifc

This thread involves Jim Callahan (when he was posting as J ack (sic) Galloway), as well as prolific author of woo, (including "Is Your Pet Psychic?" and "Cold Reading for Profit") Richard Webster. I ask Webster what role cold reading plays in psychic readings. Webster and psychics in general are defended; mentalist Ian Rowland is accused of being an unethical exposer of secrets--he weighs in late in the thread.

Another thread that asks if Rowland's book on cold reading is exposure (ie, an unethical revealing of secrets). The book is called "vile and inhumane" in one post.

A thread where remote viewing is defended as real, with appearances by Jim Callahan (aka J ack Galloway).

Getting paid to do "readings" using cold reading techniques

Here Callahan (Galloway) "explains" his $25K Randi challenge

 

[T'ai Chi]

I doubt there's that high of a correlation between being in the skeptical movement and being a magician.

 

[Big Les]

Magic Café threads I've unfortunately wasted time on:

Palmistry is scientifc

This thread involves Jim Callahan (when he was posting as J ack (sic) Galloway), as well as prolific author of woo, (including "Is Your Pet Psychic?" and "Cold Reading for Profit") Richard Webster. I ask Webster what role cold reading plays in psychic readings. Webster and psychics in general are defended; mentalist Ian Rowland is accused of being an unethical exposer of secrets--he weighs in late in the thread.

Another thread that asks if Rowland's book on cold reading is exposure (ie, an unethical revealing of secrets). The book is called "vile and inhumane" in one post.

A thread where remote viewing is defended as real, with appearances by Jim Callahan (aka J ack Galloway).

Getting paid to do "readings" using cold reading techniques

Here Callahan (Galloway) "explains" his $25K Randi challenge

Sad to say, I read all those after I followed a link there about 6 months ago. I even posted a thread about how disturbed I was by the sheer BS on display. Most of it is ego-driven I think. Some of them think they're bestowing a great gift upon the world and that there should be some "mystery" to life, with sceptics being the party-poopers. Still others (a minority) actually want to make money and fame from the "rubes".

 

[Yubi]

To my chagrin, as well as slight amusement, I note that "the Magic Cafe" is blocked on the computers at the University I attend...

 

[DJM]

I've just been reviewing and making posts on another forum, The Magic Cafe, and I was stunned by the amount of support for Jim Callahan and opposition to Criss Angel over the fight on Phenomenon on Halloween, 2007. I have always thought of magicians as a skeptical buch (Houdini, Carson, Randi, etc.), but now I'm not so sure. What do you think?

If anyone is interested, I started a thread entitled "Angel vs. Callahan" on the Cafe's "Penny for Your Thoughts" forum a few hours ago and it has already grown to three pages. Almost all the posters have disagreed with my support of Angel and strongly criticized me. I think it would be a good time for those skeptics on this board to voice their opinions in a setting where not all agree. Maybe we can change some minds to be a little more logical. I would strongly urge you to take a moment and go voice your opinions there, wherever you stand. If you're not a member, it takes only a few minutes to join.

Chris Connelly

Why would magicians be skeptic of a performance done on a TV competition performed on Halloween night? It's not like Jim did his performance at a haunted hotel, with real psychics and paranormal Inverstigators helping him to channell the spirit of a murdered little girl.

You must be confusing him with Criss.

 

[jimtron]

If anyone is interested, I started a thread entitled "Angel vs. Callahan" on the Cafe's "Penny for Your Thoughts" forum a few hours ago and it has already grown to three pages. Almost all the posters have disagreed with my support of Angel and strongly criticized me. I think it would be a good time for those skeptics on this board to voice their opinions in a setting where not all agree. Maybe we can change some minds to be a little more logical. I would strongly urge you to take a moment and go voice your opinions there, wherever you stand. If you're not a member, it takes only a few minutes to join.

Chris Connelly

Here's the link.

 

[krelnik]

I went over and watched the "nail bending" video on Callahan's site and the thing that struck me was how many words were misspelled in the on-screen captions. He even misspelled the word "steel".

I'm supposed to believe this guy has paranormal powers and he can't even master the "normal" ones? Come on!

--Tim Farley

 

[T'ai Chi]

I never thought there would be a new fallacy invented, but Krelnik did it:

Misspellings = paranormal claims can't possibly be true.

 

[wahrheit]

I went over and watched the "nail bending" video on Callahan's site and the thing that struck me was how many words were misspelled in the on-screen captions.

I actually bent the nail/spike. I used my brain to do so

LOL, call me naive, but this looks like a pair of hands to me, not like a brain:

Ah, forget it, I'm sure this has been discussed before.

 

[r2builder]

Everyone knows how much magicians hate Angel, due to his ego, use of camera tricks, lack of presentation, reliance on consultants for ideas, actors & stooges. I honestly think he's damaging the art.
Callahan on the other hand has been posting at the Magic Cafe for a good number of years, and has befriended many people there. He's the underdog. So, naturally people have sided the way they did. Despite what you think you know, Callahan has never claimed he was psychic.
I, personally, don't care too much for his act - but I think there's a huge fuss over absolutely nothing.

 

[DJM]

At least Jim has contirbuted to the art of magic with his own creations and DVD's that he's shared with other performers. Only thing Criss cares about is himself and his own ego.

 

[Big Les]

I went over and watched the "nail bending" video on Callahan's site and the thing that struck me was how many words were misspelled in the on-screen captions. He even misspelled the word "steel".

I'm supposed to believe this guy has paranormal powers and he can't even master the "normal" ones? Come on!

--Tim Farley

If you watch the video of his "Phenomenon" performance, you'll notice that the dead guy he "contacted" had a coincidentally similar case of (presumably) Dyslexia (i.e. "4 Weels").