Liberation from civilization!

TFian

Graduate Poster
TFian
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This seems to be rather philosophical, so I'm putting it here, my apologies if it's in the wrong section.

Liberation from Civilization!

Dave Pollard writes a compelling piece about the upcoming collapse of our civilization, and how best to cope with it.

http://energybulletin.net/stories/2011-07-20/liberation-civilization

I liked his ending piece

I feel for that reason ambivalent about liberating myself from civilization. I have become dependent on it. For most of my life I felt it treated me pretty well. Or maybe not — maybe it was just, like an abusive spouse, psychopathically clever at convincing me it was good for me. Part of me says liberation is scary. Not ready to change yet.
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And

In a very general way, we know what we want. We want to live as wild, free beings in a world of wild, free beings. The humiliation of having to follow rules, of having to sell our lives away to buy survival, of seeing our usurped desires transformed into abstractions and images in order to sell us commodities fills us with rage. How long will we put up with this misery? We want to make this world into a place where our desires can be immediately realized, not just sporadically, but normally. We want to re-eroticize our lives. We want to live not in a dead world of resources, but in a living world of free wild lovers. We need to start exploring the extent to which we are capable of living these dreams in the present without isolating ourselves. This will give us a clearer understanding of the domination of civilization over our lives, an understanding which will allow us to fight domestication more intensely and so expand the extent to which we can live wildly.
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Generally a fascinating piece.
 
TFian, do you perhaps ever have any sources that aren't biased by personal interests towards a collapse of civilization?

The sources you post often seem to react with glee at this hypothetical collapse of civilization. This dude is a raving mad "primitivist" who wants to go feral (and what's stopping him really?)
 
TFian said:
In a very general way, we know what we want. We want to live as wild, free beings in a world of wild, free beings. The humiliation of having to follow rules, of having to sell our lives away to buy survival, of seeing our usurped desires transformed into abstractions and images in order to sell us commodities fills us with rage. How long will we put up with this misery? We want to make this world into a place where our desires can be immediately realized, not just sporadically, but normally. We want to re-eroticize our lives. We want to live not in a dead world of resources, but in a living world of free wild lovers. We need to start exploring the extent to which we are capable of living these dreams in the present without isolating ourselves.
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Generally a fascinating piece.
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"Fascinating" in the same way Charlie Manson is, perhaps.

I don't know all the proper psychological terms, but "sociopathic" and "infantile" spring immediately to mind.
 
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Anyone who sees the collapse of civilization as a plus should take a look at what's going on in the Democratic Republic of the Congo. I'll take the rule of law, thanks so much.
 
Piscivore said:
"Fascinating" in the same way Charlie Manson is, perhaps.

I don't know all the proper psychological terms, but "sociopathic" and "infantile" spring immediately to mind.
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He writes, "Free, wild lovers," I read "Gender based violence and rape as a weapon of war." I've seen places where man is a law unto himself. No thank you.
 
All that fun talk about how great it is to be free and wild falls apart at a mere surface-level examination. Imagine how you're going to feed yourself/family without the support of civilized society. It ain't so easy. You won't feel so free if you're scratching for roots in the dirt day in and day out, with never-ending hunger pangs, average lifespan of 25 years, 1 out of 6 children reaching the age of 1 year, etc. The minute you congregate with others to cooperate on the hunt or to till a field, you're right back into living by rules set by a community.
 
TFian said:
This seems to be rather philosophical, so I'm putting it here, my apologies if it's in the wrong section.

Liberation from Civilization!

Dave Pollard writes a compelling piece about the upcoming collapse of our civilization, and how best to cope with it.
Click to expand...
Won't happen.

I liked his ending piece
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Liberation from civilization is like liberation from life, a pretty label on a universally unpleasant prospect.

Generally a fascinating piece.
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No, not really.
 
Piscivore said:
"Fascinating" in the same way Charlie Manson is, perhaps.

I don't know all the proper psychological terms, but "sociopathic" and "infantile" spring immediately to mind.
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Also "sex-obsessed" and "penis-driven."

Does the author believe society was dropped on humans from above? It evolved with the consent of the governed because of the protections it offered. And society and culture long predate the evolution of humans. There's a reason for it.
 
Craig4 said:
He writes, "Free, wild lovers," I read "Gender based violence and rape as a weapon of war." I've seen places where man is a law unto himself. No thank you.
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He writes "Free, wild lovers" and I read "unable to form emotionally satisfactory sexual and/or intimate relationships", probably due to the evident low self esteem (feeling "humiliation" from following rules), anger issues, and general social incompetence.
 
To paraphrase Sir Terry Pratchett:

After several months of going Back to Nature she discovered why most of human history has been a quest to get as far away from nature as possible.
 
Become vegan, or as near as you can to remain healthy.
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That's where I stopped reading. That guy does not even have a clue about Homo Sapiens' dietary needs ...
 
Loss Leader said:
Does the author believe society was dropped on humans from above? It evolved with the consent of the governed because of the protections it offered. And society and culture long predate the evolution of humans. There's a reason for it.
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This is pretty much what I was going to say. A quick look at the basis for human communities, way back in the caveman times, will illustrate why these changes took place. We grouped together because we could survive more easily that way. We invented newer and better tools because we could survive more easily that way. We governed the masses with laws because we could survive more easily that way.

Does the author propose that any of this is going to change? Are we actually more likely to survive isolated in the wilderness? Is the wheel suddenly going to become the bane of existence? Is punishing people for murder going to somehow kill us all?
 
I Am The Scum said:
Does the author propose that any of this is going to change? Are we actually more likely to survive isolated in the wilderness? Is the wheel suddenly going to become the bane of existence? Is punishing people for murder going to somehow kill us all?
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This is why no one, except the occasional Ted Kaczynski, ever goes Galt. This is why the Libertarian Party never gets more than 1% of the vote. It's because the number of people who want to live that way is vanishingly small.
 
Oh, and Dave?
In a very general way, we know what we want. We want to live as wild, free beings in a world of wild, free beings. The humiliation of having to follow rules, of having to sell our lives away to buy survival, of seeing our usurped desires transformed into abstractions and images in order to sell us commodities fills us with rage. How long will we put up with this misery? We want to make this world into a place where our desires can be immediately realized, not just sporadically, but normally. We want to re-eroticize our lives. We want to live not in a dead world of resources, but in a living world of free wild lovers. We need to start exploring the extent to which we are capable of living these dreams in the present without isolating ourselves. This will give us a clearer understanding of the domination of civilization over our lives, an understanding which will allow us to fight domestication more intensely and so expand the extent to which we can live wildly.
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... That's called "projection". These are your feelings, your hangups, your issues. Not "ours".
 
Of course, when people managed to survive as hunter gatherers, the total population was only 0.1% of today, and life was a daily struggle for food. It surely doesn't sound like a romantic prospect to me.
 
I like the part about living now instead of obsessing on the past or future. Right now, civilization works.
 
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