Legal(ish) Questions

[Mr Manifesto]

A few people on this forum have legal knowledge. I am lodging an appeal at work (it isn't going to court, so I don't need/can't afford a lawyer's services yet), and need some advice on how to argue a few issues. I'd like it to be as water-tight as possible, in a legal sense, in case it has to go to court.

Is there an easier way of saying 'it's impossible to prove a negative' besides saying 'it's impossible to prove a negative'. I've been accused of something not much different to being accused of having pixies in my back garden. I've denied the accusation, and instead of any evidence being shown that I have pixies in my back garden, I've been told to prove that pixies have never been in my back garden.

Pretend that you were asked by your workplace to attend an appointment of some sort (with your boss, for the sake of an argument). You didn't attend the appointment because you weren't given notification of the appointment. It is perfectly allowed within your workplace to withhold your phone number- as long as you provide a mailing address and an email address. You have withheld your phone number, but provided a mailing and email address. Neither were used to contact you.
Your boss says that you are a bad worker because you didn't attend the appointment, and the fact that you didn't provide your phone number shows that you don't want to be contacted so you can be a bad worker. How do you argue an argument like that?

If your workplace has a policy that is open to interpretation, and you are told that you have violated the policy with no reason given (such as, what interpretation was used, where one can find interpretations), what's the best way to argue this case?

None of these are what actually happened, BTW, I'm trying hard not to say anything that will land me in deeper doo-doo, but it's pretty close to what actually happened.

Any help appreciated.

 

[Tormac]

Well Mr. Manifesto, I will definatly not claim to have any legal advice to give you, but I do have some general advice.

If your boss is seriously trying to crap on you for not attending a meeting that you were unaware of, start looking for another boss. Even if you argue your way out of this pickle, it sounds to me like your current boss will be quick to attack you with a new charge tommorow.

From your description of the hypothetical situation, it sounds to me like your workplace is gearing up to screw you over anyways. If I was in that situation, I would

1) Start looking for a new place of employment ASAP.

2) Try to smooth things over at work as best as I could, without compramising a personal privacy issue.

3) Enjoy turning in my resignation the day after you get a new job lined up.

As I think you already know, it is just about impossible to logically prove a negative. I would seriously not try to argue the case, since that in and of it self can be used to prove that you are argumentative, with a poor attitude (of course not defending yourself can be used as proof of guilt, catch -22). Try to smooth things out with your boss long enough to get a new job, or a new position where you are not under your current boss.

Good luck.

 

[Mr Manifesto]

I have a new boss at the moment. He's actually really good. All I need to do is cap this investigation that started before he took over (once we open Pandora's box at my workplace, we can't shut it again).

Thanks for the well-wishes, too. All these catch-22's make me want to hit something. Fortunately I'm mature enough to know it won't help. I think.

 

[corplinx]

In general:

keep a good attitude
dont act defensive
it should be your new boss's job to defend you, delegate it to him

 

[Jon_in_london]

So from what I understand- your boss is ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ you out for not attending a meeting he didnt tell you about?
Is this correct?

 

[Mr Manifesto]

So from what I understand- your boss is ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ you out for not attending a meeting he didnt tell you about?
Is this correct?

No, but it's a similar situation.

My boss wanted something from me, but because I did something that I not only have every right to do, but the thing I did would not have been an issue if my boss wasn't on my butt, my boss is trying to say that is evidence that I am a bad worker.

 

[Mr Manifesto]

Here's another humorous piece of evidence, should it go to Industrial Relations Court:

"I accuse Mr Manifest of being a bad team worker because he didn't do X."

"Did you tell him to do X, or are there any written guidelines, or workplace polices, or precedent saying that he has to do X?"

"No, but I talked to some other team members and they can't see why he didn't do X."

Apparently we can use anecdotal evidence now. News to me.

 

[Zep]

No legal skills particularly, but nearly 30 years in the Oz IT industry must count for something...

Generally this looks like a storm in a tea-cup. Some guy who is no longer around is just trying to excuse himself. Is it REALLY so important that this can't be ignored and you just keep on doing your job?

If not...

1) If it really looks like getting dirty, have a look through the Unlawful Dismissal laws in your state. They are usually pretty harsh and also complicated. No company likes to have to deal with these as they are expensive and rarely have any "good" outcome. They would MUCH rather come to an agreement of some sort before it even got off the ground. Background work required on your part now.

2) Get yourself a "supporter" in your corner. Your new boss sounds about right - is he prepared to stand with you and say this is crap and can we get back to work?

3) Get your colleagues on-side. He's said they "support him". But they may also say "who cares" or "it's not important" or "but we don't all work that way".

4) Perhaps most importantly, as his prime argument he said...

...but I talked to some other team members and they can't see why he didn't do X.

I would really like to see this guy run this one past his own boss. It is crystal evidence that he has no workplace management skills whatever, so bad move. I mean, you get to be the boss because you DO "boss-stuff," like organising and telling your staff what to do and when (in the best possible way, usually). So you might like to play this point up with your new boss beforehand as old boss can only look a dork if he runs with this as his trump card.

 

[Mr Manifesto]

All I can say is, I can't wait until it's over because I have some funny stories to tell. Unfortunately, as it may go to court, I don't want to... uhm... prejudice? The case.

 

[Aoidoi]

IANAL. Sounds like your best arguments are:
1) I was following procedure. If the procedure is flawed, fix it, don't blame me for it.
2) Boss knew the procedure and wanted me to do something outside it but was ineffective at informing me. His problem, he knew the procedures and didn't effectively operate within them or when they didn't apply.
3) This is vague as I don't know the details, but basically arguing that what he wanted was unnecessary or in some way improper or beyond the scope of your job. Don't know details, this may be kind of weak.

Good luck.

As a manager once told me... if an employee is not doing his job that means that 2 people have screwed up. The employee and his manager.