Latest challenger

[nbenami]

You know, I have actually felt things when passing under certain high power lines. I was cycling around New Zealand and stopped to rest under a pair of power lines. There was a crackling/buzzing sound in the air and one can actually feel the electromagnetic field. Kind of unnerving - anyone else experience this? I can see how this guy could certainly come to believe that he can dowse for those things.

 

[Ashles]

I was reading a study the other day (I'm sorry I can't find the reference) where a group of students were put in a house near a powerful transmitter mast and had to monitor how they felt when the transmitter was turned off, and when it was turned on.

The students complained of nausea and headaches whenever the transmitter was turned on.

The interesting thing was that they had only been TOLD when it was turned on. In actual fact it was off for the entire duration.

I can feel the presence of electricity, but only when triggered by an awareness of it eg. buzzing, crackling, seeing bare wires etc. as you mention above.

Every day I travel to work on the train, on the underground to a huge modern tower building. I must pass close to highly electrified fields many times, but I never notice them. Maybe it's just our awareness that is creating the sensations - like staring at a pont on the back of your hand can generate sensation there.

I would be interested to see more experimentation on this. Air is, after all, an excellent insulator.

 

[Neutron Jack]

Air is, after all, an excellent insulator.

Air is indeed an insulator against the flow of current (i.e., electrons). However, air doesn't really do much to stop electromagnetic radiation. My television is currently doing a swell job of picking up electromagnetic radiation through some sixty miles of air.

In fact, my body can detect electromagnetic radiation quite handily. I can reliably detect electromagnetic radiation in the 400-700 nm band. I'm willing to be tested--will it get me the million?

 

[apoger]

Power lines project a hefty electromagnetic signature that is quite detectable via non-parnormal means. I think that it will be difficult to screen this claimant for devices that might tip him off.

I say make him detect groundwater or sulfide mineralization, which are also his claims and are not easily detectable by ordinary means.

 

[Carn]

In fact, my body can detect electromagnetic radiation quite handily. I can reliably detect electromagnetic radiation in the 400-700 nm band. I'm willing to be tested--will it get me the million?

This is just an illusion the mighty satan has put upon you!!!

Carn

 

[Ashles]

What kind of elctromagnetic radiation could be detected by the nerve receptors in the skin (obviously I am excluding eyesight as the claimant is not using this)?
Can anyone detect TV channels without equipment?
I would have thought the only way you could detect whether electricity was passing through cables would have to be by receiving a powerful electric shock that would pretty much hurt a lot.
(Or is there any chance of smelling ozone or anything similar? Or hearing the buzzing?)

As apoger has mentioned there are many devices, some pretty small, that could detect these currents extremely easily.

Or even another observer placed elsewhere has only to communicate to the claimant.

This test looks like it's very, very open to cheating. I'll be interested to see the protocol for this one.

 

[Drooper]

What kind of elctromagnetic radiation could be detected by the nerve receptors in the skin (obviously I am excluding eyesight as the claimant is not using this)?

Never been sunburnt?

 

[Ashles]

Which nerve endings detect UV light?

The sunburn is pain felt from the skin damage. It's not a direct detection.

We can detect heat, but not UV.

 

[Carn]

Which nerve endings detect UV light?

The sunburn is pain felt from the skin damage. It's not a direct detection.

We can detect heat, but not UV.

Correct, but sunburn allows for indirect detection method.

E.g. got a pack of lamps, some do emit UV + visible light, others only emit visible light, but both lamps have the same spectrum in the visible range(look identical), then i can determine with 90%+ accuracy which are the UV lamps by just exposing my skin to them.

Lets go for the million .

And i'm relative certain that for some frequencies, with strong enough amplitude, the fact, that part of our brain and nerve function relies on electric current, would allow for a similar detection method, though i believe that how the electricity is used today, no detection is possible.

Carn

 

[Ashles]

Correct, but sunburn allows for indirect detection method.

Well I guess we'll have to make sure the claimant doesn't use the indirect method of grasping the electric cables and electrocuting himself.

And i'm relative certain that for some frequencies, with strong enough amplitude, the fact, that part of our brain and nerve function relies on electric current, would allow for a similar detection method, though i believe that how the electricity is used today, no detection is possible.

Well this is what I was mentioning above. The current would have to be so colossal that the electricity would arc through the air and, you would certainly detect it for a nanosecond. The rest of your life in fact.
But I don't see up until that point how you would detect it as you are insulated from the electricity. It's not the same as the electromagnetic radiation mentioned above. Just because our nerve endings are electrical based doesn't mean they can detect a current that they are completely insulated from - it's not a linear scale, it's nothing then zap!

 

[Carn]

But I don't see up until that point how you would detect it as you are insulated from the electricity. It's not the same as the electromagnetic radiation mentioned above. Just because our nerve endings are electrical based doesn't mean they can detect a current that they are completely insulated from - it's not a linear scale, it's nothing then zap!

But electric current flows somewhere in nerve system, so a strong electromagnetic field of the right frequency, that is able to penetrate the skin, is able to change those currents, so will cause some change in the sensations one receives.

I just do not believe that our electrical devices have the right frequency and are strong enough to do so in a noticeable way.

Its maybe on the same level that the moon affects us, during full moon an average adult weighs around 0.6 gramms less than during new moon. Also the blood will weigh less, so the heart can pump around 0.00001% more blood into the brain using the same effort. Why that should have any effect on anybody i do not know, but the unnoticable effect is there.

Carn

 

[Ashles]

But electric current flows somewhere in nerve system, so a strong electromagnetic field of the right frequency, that is able to penetrate the skin, is able to change those currents, so will cause some change in the sensations one receives.

No I think you've got this wrong. Just because nerves in our body use electric current as signals does not mean that a nearby electric source will effect them. We are insulated from the electricity so it does not effect us any more than when we grasp an insulated power cable can we get electrocuted or detect the current flowing.

This is not to say that devices can't detect the electromagnetic radiation, but we can't.

Its maybe on the same level that the moon affects us, during full moon an average adult weighs around 0.6 gramms less than during new moon.

Firstly, this effect would be down to gravity which increaes in strength as you get closer to the object - you can't be 'insulated' or shielded from gravity so this is a different effect and not analogous. (I can only see the effect you are talknig about occurring in relation to the position of the moon in the sky - overhead as opposed to at an angle).
Secondly it wouldn't be simply because the moon is full (all that means is that there is no earth shadow falling on the moon - that would not affect our weight).

This is like confusing the effect the moon has on the tides as being relevant to humans simply because we are 90% water. Gravity effects everything, water or not.

So I think that because our nervous system is electrical based you are assuming, incorrectly, that that gives us some ability to detect electricity, whilst being totally insulated from it. That would be like detecting visible light while behind a wall.

Also I am confused as to what you mean by frequency of electricity? It's not like frequency of electromagnetic radiation in that the right frequency will beam electricity over a wide area.

I think you're wrong about this, but I'd be interested if anyone knows differently.

 

[Dr Adequate]

This is like confusing the effect the moon has on the tides as being relevant to humans simply because we are 90% water.

SHAME ON YOU, SIR. SHAME ON YOU. Look it up. Or just oblige me by considering for a moment that you have a skeleton...

 

[Ashles]

I KNEW someone was going to pick on that. It wasn't the main point and I didn't look it up but, okay, I was out by about 24% then.

I knew I should have stuck to 'mostly water'.

Aaaanyway...

 

[Dr Adequate]

There are versions of this myth which go as high as 98% (a CUP OF COFFEE is 98% water). Really.

http://home.earthlink.net/~glrediger/glr_column/GOSPFIT.html
http://www.angelfire.com/realm2/amethystbt/elementalsworkingwithwater.html
http://www.assemblagepointshift.com/wandsm.htm
http://www.suzimorris.co.uk

The last one is part of VortexHealing TM, a group you should have a look at. Especially their code of ethics. YES, it really does say that it's unethical to try to diagnose what's wrong with the patient. It really, really does.

 

[Ashles]

Alright already!

It's a myth. We all know it's a myth. I only mentioned it to make a point about false parallels.

Geez...

 

[Dr Adequate]

Pray continue, sir, with your most interesting narrative.

 

[Ashles]

Well I'd, er, pretty much finished.


Normal service will be resumed shortly.

In the meantime we hope all our viewers will enjoy this cute doggy.

 

[Carn]

No I think you've got this wrong. Just because nerves in our body use electric current as signals does not mean that a nearby electric source will effect them. We are insulated from the electricity so it does not effect us any more than when we grasp an insulated power cable can we get electrocuted or detect the current flowing.

Well, i'm not wrong, i'm just pointing at a minor and irrelevant, but nonetheless true detail.

Any current causes a electromagnetic field according to Maxwells laws, which mainly relate field strength to current strength and distance and material in between.
A change in the electromagnetic field inside an object can cause a current inside the object, depending on object parameters.

So if you have a copper wire and it is inside a changing em field or you move it through a constant, but not homogenous em field, the em field inside the copper wire will change and a current will be induced. This is how antenna work.

Inside an insulator there will be no current, only a slight shifting of electrons inside the atoms, so an insulator is very bad or even useless, in detecting a change in em field strength.

All i'm saying is, that as some part of nerve sytem has reasonable conductivity(otherwise no info can be transmitted by electrical means), there might be circumstances where a change in em field causes a slight current, which could then, if its strong enough, cause a sensation inside brain and then brain could conclude, if it can dismiss all other possible reasons, that a change in em field is the reason.

This is not to say that devices can't detect the electromagnetic radiation, but we can't.

Nearly all technical devices that detect electromagnetic radiation, are based on the fact, that em field changes induce currents. This could also happen inside a human body, though it might be so small, that other detection methods start to work far sooner, e.g. watch being torn off your arm, exploding technical devices, ...

Firstly, this effect would be down to gravity which increaes in strength as you get closer to the object - you can't be 'insulated' or shielded from gravity so this is a different effect and not analogous. (I can only see the effect you are talknig about occurring in relation to the position of the moon in the sky - overhead as opposed to at an angle).
Secondly it wouldn't be simply because the moon is full (all that means is that there is no earth shadow falling on the moon - that would not affect our weight).

Sorry, i made a stupid mistake there, of course it does not depend on moon being full, it depends on which side of earth the moon is compared to your position, i wrongly connected that to moon being full.
If the moon is from your point of view on the other side as earths center, then part or all(depending on exact positions) of the gravitational force caused by him is added to that caused by earth, you weigh a bit more, if the moon is on the same side of earths center, then its force is partly or fully substracted, you weigh less.
A more complete and correct explanation can be found on
http://www.badastronomy.com/bad/misc/tides.html
and
http://www.badastronomy.com/bad/misc/planets.html
though its hidden between debunking pseudoscientific mistakes.

This is like confusing the effect the moon has on the tides as being relevant to humans simply because we are 90% water. Gravity effects everything, water or not.

I was pointing at the gravitational effect of the moon to give an impression as to how well i personally guess a human could detect nearby normal technical used electric currents, sorry for misusing the word "level".

So I think that because our nervous system is electrical based you are assuming, incorrectly, that that gives us some ability to detect electricity, whilst being totally insulated from it. That would be like detecting visible light while behind a wall.

As i said, i personally think that a human is as good in detecting electricity, as he is capable to detect position of the moon via weight change of a magnitude around 0,6 gramm, so i do not believe anyone claiming he can do so, but i do not know enough about nervous system to be certain that under all circumstances with all known electrical devices its impossible.

Also I am confused as to what you mean by frequency of electricity? It's not like frequency of electromagnetic radiation in that the right frequency will beam electricity over a wide area.

I meant frequency of electric current, which is the same frequency the em field will have, that is caused by the current.
And the frequency is important, because all devices detecting em fields via induced current have frequency ranges where the induced current is big enough to be detected, outside these frequencies the detection will be bad or nil. If you tune your radio, you do nothing else than, via changing the current inside your radios antenna, change the frequency, where the detection is best, that way you avoid hearing all stations at once.
The same way there could be some frequencies, where the human nervous sytem is best at being affected by, though best might still not be good enough to notice anything and it might even depend on what person is doing, has eaten or drunk, is thinking and so on.

I think you're wrong about this, but I'd be interested if anyone knows differently.

Again, i just stated, that em field could change the current flow inside nervous system, but there are many buts and the biggest but is that change of everyday electrical devices is too small to be detected concious or unconciously.

But that might be different, if you use the output of a dozen electric power plants to create a single big em field with right frequency and put a human near the source of it.


Carn

 

[Ashles]

Any current causes a electromagnetic field according to Maxwells laws, which mainly relate field strength to current strength and distance and material in between.

Well that's fine, but apart from eyes which nerves in the human body detect electromagnetic radiation? Edit: Maybe those that register heat - I'm not sure about that.

All i'm saying is, that as some part of nerve sytem has reasonable conductivity(otherwise no info can be transmitted by electrical means), there might be circumstances where a change in em field causes a slight current, which could then, if its strong enough, cause a sensation inside brain and then brain could conclude, if it can dismiss all other possible reasons, that a change in em field is the reason.

How? The current is not transmitted to the body. I think you are confusing electricity eith electromagnetic radiation.

Nearly all technical devices that detect electromagnetic radiation, are based on the fact, that em field changes induce currents. This could also happen inside a human body, though it might be so small, that other detection methods start to work far sooner, e.g. watch being torn off your arm, exploding technical devices, ...

Would the em field changes induce currents within the human body? And if so what receptors would detect that?

Sorry, i made a stupid mistake there, of course it does not depend on moon being full, it depends on which side of earth the moon is compared to your position, i wrongly connected that to moon being full.

The links only emphasise the point I'm making.

As i said, i personally think that a human is as good in detecting electricity, as he is capable to detect position of the moon via weight change of a magnitude around 0,6 gramm, so i do not believe anyone claiming he can do so, but i do not know enough about nervous system to be certain that under all circumstances with all known electrical devices its impossible.

You are expressing a personal opinion without evidence and likening it to a completely different effect (gravity). The two are not connected.
It's like me saying I can detect a small torchlight on a nearby hill with my eyes so I must be able to see infrared beams, although your comparison is worse because it involves completely different mechanisms.

I meant frequency of electric current, which is the same frequency the em field will have, that is caused by the current.

No, those are completely different things. Lights use very different electric frequency to power them, but they all give off visible light.

But that might be different, if you use the output of a dozen electric power plants to create a single big em field with right frequency and put a human near the source of it.

Like I said, if you did that the human would detect it, but only by being hit by a bolt of lightning.

Look at static electricity - it can raise the hair off your head, but do you feel it until you get a shock?