Lamb in the city

[Zoinked168]

I apologies for disturbing the nature of the thread "missing people" and to Kelly for my original post in a public forum. It was not my intention to submit myself in that situation and I realize now it was inappropriate. Not only am I "new blood" to this forum but to the concept of posting on forums in general too.

In regards to the few people who outright criticize my beliefs, it is difficult at times for me to explain the unexplained without a foundation of indeed knowledge in and physics, which I am still developing. I miss pelt quantum bioelectromagnetic energy too, which is not a made up fiction of mine to be used as a weapon to support rantings. I am human after all and I realize this will not be the last time I may look sheepish.

Also, I realize that I have not answered some questions directly, but I feel that I have indirectly on a small scale. Yes it may appear that I have said to Kelly "Sorry, Lady, your kid is dead". Which I know is a brutal way of looking at it, yet something that Kelly even professes to heard on more than one occasion. So I've really put my foot in the mud there and probably should not have touched the subject in the first place. But I did...and now I have put myself under pressure to get myself out of the sinking sand. The original purpose of my first post which has caused such controversy was mearly to say "try it for yourself" and that I wouldn't even mind guiding Kelly to find answers if she wanted. There are all sorts of little things that everyone can do to tune into this untapped resource and hidden treasures along the way. So you all can paint me as the bad person in the room or maybe the person who actually submitted themselves to the wolves with a pure heart.

Off to work...

 

[chillzero]

I apologies for disturbing the nature of the thread "missing people" and to Kelly for my original post in a public forum. It was not my intention to submit myself in that situation and I realize now it was inappropriate. Not only am I "new blood" to this forum but to the concept of posting on forums in general too.

It's always good to recognise when you have overstepped your mark. That gives you a slight boost, because it makes others see that you are willing to examine yourself and your own actions, and so therefore might conduct a more reasonable and rational conversation than some who visit here.

In regards to the few people who outright criticize my beliefs, it is difficult at times for me to explain the unexplained without a foundation of indeed knowledge in and physics, which I am still developing. I miss pelt quantum bioelectromagnetic energy too, which is not a made up fiction of mine to be used as a weapon to support rantings. I am human after all and I realize this will not be the last time I may look sheepish.

I'll leave comments on this section to those more scientifically qualified to approach it.

Also, I realize that I have not answered some questions directly, but I feel that I have indirectly on a small scale. Yes it may appear that I have said to Kelly "Sorry, Lady, your kid is dead". Which I know is a brutal way of looking at it, yet something that Kelly even professes to heard on more than one occasion. So I've really put my foot in the mud there and probably should not have touched the subject in the first place.But I did...and now I have put myself under pressure to get myself out of the sinking sand.

This will be something that will be hard for you to get past now, no matter what you post. It amazes me that having read even a small part of the thread - even just the opening post - that you would have considered doing that. Whether this was in a PM or public post is irrelevant - if you read through some of the earlier pages you will see that Kelly is happy to share with us the lack of consideration she is given in PMs from people. But, perhaps we should try and get past that, and look now to your claims.

The original purpose of my first post which has caused such controversy was mearly to say "try it for yourself" and that I wouldn't even mind guiding Kelly to find answers if she wanted. There are all sorts of little things that everyone can do to tune into this untapped resource and hidden treasures along the way. So you all can paint me as the bad person in the room or maybe the person who actually submitted themselves to the wolves with a pure heart.

Off to work...

OK, now we can move on and look at what you claim. What exactly do you claim?
What is different from your explanation to Kelly about heartbeats and her sons, and a gut feeling?
What success (proven success) have you had in using your methods?
How have you tested yourself to ensure the information you give is always correct? Because surely, you wouldn't like to subject anyone to information like that unless you were absolutely, 100% consistently correct - every time. Would you?

I hope you will take time to consider my questions, and respond, as I am asking from a genuinely interested perspective.

 

[Banbury]

quantum bioelectromagnetic energy

I don't think it matters how you spell it. It's just random technobabble. In the 50s everything was atomic, nowadays it's quantum.
Unless one can explain what Quantum Mechanics is all about, one should simply refrain from invoking it.

Greetings

Banbury

 

[Ryan O'Dine]

Excellent post Chillzero. Meg’s post on the other thread was also a beautiful thing.

I, too, want to focus on this quantum bioelectromagnetic energy. I’m holding in my hand the second edition of Introduction to Modern Physics, John McGervey, a college level book focusing mainly on QM. From the index we find:

Q value... Quadrupole moment... Quadrupole radiation... Quantization... Quantum electrodynamics... Quantum numbers... Quantum statistics... Quark... etc.

Nothing there. Let’s try “bioelectromagnetic”...

Bell inequality... Beta decay... Beta ray... Binding energy... Binomial distribution... Black-body radiation... Bloch function...

Nothing again. How about “energy”...

Elliptical orbits... Energy gap... Energy levels... Energy operator... Equipartition of energy... Equivalent electrons...

One of the standard textbooks for college level QM, and not a hint of quantum bioelectromagnetic energy. In fact, I guarantee if you ask any working, retired, or long-dead physicist with a specialty in QM about quantum bioelectromagnetic energy, they’d go, very decisively, “Huh?”

Zoinked168, I applaud your willingness to learn more physics. I suggest two things: before then, don’t indulge in statements that would be laughed off a Star Trek script. (Alternatively, give us the equations and their derivations so we can decide for ourselves.) Second, learn physics from physicists, not woos. (I can even suggest a few good popular science books for starters.)

 

[meg]

Hi Zoinked,

I appreciate your coming back to the boards; I know that might not have been an easy thing to do. I also very much appreciate you starting a new thread to discuss your powers.

You have definitely come to the right place, if your intent is to attempt to prove your powers are real. The many very intelligent people on this board can help you design any number of tests of your abilities. Test that can prove to yourself, to us, and to the world that what you have experienced is real and useable.

I wouldn't worry too much about not knowing enough physics to explain it all. You really don't need to explain it yet. Just demonstrate it. If we can design a proper test that demonstrates your paranormal ability, I promise you, scientists from all over the globe will work to figure it out and try to explain it.

So, let's get down to the matter at hand.

Just exactly what can you do? Chillzero's questions are an excellent place to start.

I look forward to reading your reply.

Respectfully,
Meg

 

[Kelly]

This is a very long paper, but I believe she is talking about this:

http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:CPSDt6yEZL0J:chinesetherapeutics.org/qiandbioelectromagneticengergy.pdf+%22bioelectromagnetic+energy%22&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=1

 

[Gr8wight]

Zoinked's talents can be very precisely described. She can make definitive pronouncements and predictions on any matter that cannot be reliably fact checked.

It's true.

 

[tsg]

From the other thread:

But this is not about the money.

This is bigger than the material world.

I have no intentions of being a lab rat for the rest of my life.

Can't we get a list of Excuses For Not Applying For The Million Dollar Challenge somewhere? It would save a lot of time if they could just pick by number....

 

[Ashles]

From the other thread:

Can't we get a list of Excuses For Not Applying For The Million Dollar Challenge somewhere? It would save a lot of time if they could just pick by number....

http://www.skepticreport.com/tools/topjref.htm

 

[Kelly]

Excellent list!

Is Zoinked a "post and run"?

 

[Ryan O'Dine]

This is a very long paper, but I believe she is talking about this:

http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:CPSDt6yEZL0J:chinesetherapeutics.org/qiandbioelectromagneticengergy.pdf+%22bioelectromagnetic+energy%22&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=1

Kelly, thanks for the link. I suspect you may be right about this being the kind of thing our friend is referring to. At the risk of derailing a thread that may have never railed:

Here are some gems from that paper (my bolding)...

According to the Rutherford model of the atom, the proton, which is positively charged and the neutron, which has no charge, together form the center of the atom.

Technically true, but Rutherford’s model was replaced by Bohr’s model. And Bohr’s model was replaced by... the quantum model.

The electron, which has a negative charge, orbits the centrally located proton and neutron. The difference between the positive, negative, and neutral charges of these particles is the basis
for electricity. Countless studies have indicated that it is the difference in charge between these particles that holds atoms together, forming molecules, and ultimately, all matter. As such, the electrical charge between these particles is the basis for all life, and all matter, in the universe
(Whitten, Davis, and Peck, 1996).

Uh... no. The electric force does not hold atoms together. The strong nuclear force does.

It is also important to note that the magnetic field produced by the flow of current through a conductor, whether physical or biological, is infinite.

This would be news to a physicist.

Traditionally, the study of energy fields in the physical environment and living organisms has been a bitter controversy for biologists and other scientists.

Don’t think so. Unless you meant “psientists”.

The magnetic field produced by the heart, and all other organs and tissues in the body, extend indefinitely into space and interact with the electromagnetic fields produced in the environment and by other human beings and animals – sometimes at considerable distances, (e.g. 15 feet from the body).

You can't argue that a person's magnetic field is even detectable 15 ft from the body.

Okay, I can’t go on. It’s like reading a middle-schooler’s half-hearted attempt at a science class paper they didn’t want to write.

Zoinked, if this is the kind of source you’re getting your info from, I strongly recommend reconsidering. You seem like the kind of person genuinely interesting in finding the truth. You’ll never find it in quantum biobabblebabble. (Unless by "truth" you mean "trooth".)

 

[Zoinked168]

Hello again all

Where do I begin?! No, I'm not a "post and run", I've only just finished work now and quite exhausted

However, I have been absorbing some of the fine points of the thread which I am pleasantly surprised by.

"OK, now we can move on and look at what you claim. What exactly do you claim?
What is different from your explanation to Kelly about heartbeats and her sons, and a gut feeling?
What success (proven success) have you had in using your methods?
How have you tested yourself to ensure the information you give is always correct? Because surely, you wouldn't like to subject anyone to information like that unless you were absolutely, 100% consistently correct - every time. Would you?"

Shall I go through step by step...hmm. Ok well, even this is a tricky one to answer, reason being is that previously when I was on the top of my form my 'Qi' was much stronger and it was built up with diligent training of around 8 hours a day with a very good mentor to guide me through. It has only been recently I have set upon my quest to regain this diminished Qi which is no easy feat considering the time element which I no longer have as much to spare, and I am no longer in contact with my mentor. It goes onto more details which do not answer your current question of what is it that I claim. What I can say right now is that I have an ability to 'look' into any given objects energy and pick up characteristics of it's nature. This I have come to know as 'scanning'. I can detect 'auras' and see multiple colours although this confuses me to as what it actually means. I know that a bright green aura is a healers colour, and purple is linked to a powerful source. Most common I see is yellowish and blueish. Reds are dangerous. Still something for me to work on. From time to time I am able to pick up on what people are saying in their mind, might be a specific word or phase. When I question the person about it they usually get quite scared after that and get a bit paranoid lol. Happens with images too, particularly when I focus, I definitely score higher than the law of averages every time, but after about three minutes I lose clarity and then I know I am taking a shot in the dark as opposed to visualizing in my minds eye. This brings me to a more developed perk of using the mind's eye when scanning and healing. In the beginning of my training I was told that I would learn the most about biology and it's workings from my own. To my surprise, I found out some incredible things about myself and later about other people which again made them paranoid. Yeah, I have cured myself of a few minor aliments such as fevers, muscle pains, headaches, period pains :s. As of lately, I have had the flu (which everyone hates!) but pulled myself out of it within 5 days back to full health. Also, quite embarrassing I have had twice really badly! But it was gone within a day without any antibiotics. The cooler points and generally more helpful on a everyday basis is being more sensitive to a variety of types of energy. Basically this can be divided up into two parts; Positive and Negative. Energy usually falls into one or the other. Electricity would be negative, it obviously does not gel with the body, and even love had it's own unique energy which is powerful stuff!
There's a few other things, but I'm never going to be able to sleep if I'm going to get through everything!

Ok, with gut feelings, interesting enough this can be labeled as 'intuition' right? You don't know why but you just 'feel' something and you can't really explain why. The difference between what I can do and basic intuition is that I can clarify on this 'gut feeling'. I can do this a number of ways using some of the 'tools' I have listed above. You are absolutely right, I wouldn't say anything that I myself wasn't sure of, it's pointless and I can only offer a weak explanation. This is why if I am not sure from using one method of clarifying, I can use an alternative until I reach a 100% conclusion beyond reasonable doubt.

Ok....that's one batch *Splashes cold water on face*

"Alternatively, give us the equations and their derivations so we can decide for ourselves."

Point made, I will try!

"I can even suggest a few good popular science books for starters"

Please do! KellyJ did manage to find a long-winded paper on QBEME (don't make me spell it again please!!) which is great. Although I do have some discrepancies with it, I will try to discuss this at a later date.

"She can make definitive pronouncements and predictions on any matter that cannot be reliably fact checked"

Indeed, All this talk is for nothing if I cannot put my money where my mouth is so to speak. Hence why I do want to try some different experiments. Hell it took Edison 17,000 errors before he got it right. Hopefully I won't have to go through that many!

"Zoinked, if this is the kind of source you’re getting your info from, I strongly recommend reconsidering. You seem like the kind of person genuinely interesting in finding the truth. You’ll never find it in quantum biobabblebabble. (Unless by "truth" you mean "trooth"

Lol, Definitely not! Even as reading Whitten, Davis, and Peck, 1996 quotes given, I was frowning. That is on a very molecular ground which I'm not totally comfortable dealing with as my knowledge on this is slight. I do know however from my own experience that although,yes when dealing with Qi it is on a molecular basis but it is pointless to channel my thoughts on one atom to manipulate for healing purposes. Although I have thought about conducting this experiment on a microscope in a conditioned environment, I have no access to these delicate instruments to detect and examine possible changes to one atom or a bunch. Would be interesting to watch this on a big screen though!

You all seem to be an intelligent group of people and it is a pleasure to finally find a place to put these words down. I deeply appreciate your consideration to take me seriously despite my previous 'jump the gun' rude attitude. It was brought on only by my enthusiasm and I am keen to learn more.

Hope I didn't miss out on too much. Just going to do some reading before I hit the sack so pardon me if I appear to away. Tomorrow I'll be back.

Night all

 

[AOK Tiger]

Zoinked,

You have a whole book of woo excuses just in that last post

Why can’t you take the challenge

1.) I don’t want to be lab rat
2.) What I do is so complicated
3.) I don’t understand what I do
4.) The power comes and goes
5.) The power only last 3 minutes
6.) I don’t even know what the power is
7.) I used to be more powerful
8.) I just posted 500 words that made NO sense
9.) I need to get some sleep
10.) I heal myself at the same rate as normal people do but think it is special
11.) I have heard some rudimentary things with the word “quantum” in them and I don’t understand them so this must be related to my power

I'll be back.

Sadly that is probably true and more sadly intelligent people with more important things to do will waste their time trying to explain why you are delusional !

 

[Kelly]

Zoe,

There are many things you speak of, that can probably not be proven, such as seeing "auras" and healing yourself.

I think we should stick to one claim that could be proven.

You said that you know if a person is dead or alive because you could read/feel the presence of their energy.

How did you do this in Jason's case? Did you stare at his photo and then go into a trance-like state?

What would you need to know about a person in order to do this? Would just their name suffice? Could you do it by photo alone without a name?

Your answers could supply the basis for testing, but I'll let the real skeptics jump in and take this and apply the appropriate testing parameters.

As a reminder for new readers, Zoe made the claim that she knows my son is dead because his energy no longer exists on earth. It would seem that an ability such as this could be tested.

Kelly

 

[ChristineR]

Auras are easily tested for. A volunteer stands in a darkened room behind a partition that is slightly taller than the volunteer. He rolls a die to decide which of three spots he will stand on. The claiment comes into the room, and records where the volunteer is standing.

 

[Psiload]

***snip***
As of lately, I have had the flu (which everyone hates!) but pulled myself out of it within 5 days back to full health. Also, quite embarrassing I have had twice really badly! But it was gone within a day without any antibiotics.***snip***

Ummm... "the flu" is a virus. Antibiotics don't work on viruses.

Five days seems like an excessive duration for a standard flu. The average duration of a flu is three days. Short duration flus... 24 hours and less, are actually quite common. I have had the flu several times... none have lasted much past 24 hours. How can you be sure your "powers" were responsible for shortening the duration of your flu symptoms?

The cooler points and generally more helpful on a everyday basis is being more sensitive to a variety of types of energy. Basically this can be divided up into two parts; Positive and Negative. Energy usually falls into one or the other. Electricity would be negative, it obviously does not gel with the body, and even love had it's own unique energy which is powerful stuff!
There's a few other things, but I'm never going to be able to sleep if I'm going to get through everything!

Energy and electricity are two forces of nature which are very well understood by modern science. We have developed instruments which can detect and measure these forces with great accuracy down to miniscule levels.

I'm guessing that you are not using these terms as they are commonly understood by modern science. I'm guessing that the forces of "energy" and "electricity", in the context in which you are using them, cannot be detected or measured by any instrument, no matter how sensitive and sophisticated that instrument may be.

I think you are hijacking prosaic scientific terms in an attempt to lend credibility to your supernatural claims... a credibility which your claims have not earned, and do not deserve.

 

[UrsulaV]

Yeah, I have cured myself of a few minor aliments such as fevers, muscle pains, headaches, period pains :s. As of lately, I have had the flu (which everyone hates!) but pulled myself out of it within 5 days back to full health. Also, quite embarrassing I have had twice really badly! But it was gone within a day without any antibiotics.

Have to agree with a previous poster--five days is a fairly long flu. The last time I had it, it was a knock-down, alternating sweats and chills, monster of a flu...and my husband and I were both over it in three and a half days. (Had it lasted five, I probably would've gone to the hospital, it was the most miserably sick I've been in a decade.)

Do you have any hard evidence to indicate that your five-day flu was a miraculously swift recovery, instead of a plain 'ol slightly-longer-than-normal ailment?

Also, you seem to have dropped a noun, so I can't tell what you had twice really badly. Except that it was embarassing. (Gee, we could have all kinds of fun speculating...but no.) Can you clarify? Twenty-four hour leprosy would be impressive, a twenty-four hour cold, not so much.

 

[Gr8wight]

Zoe,

There are many things you speak of, that can probably not be proven, such as seeing "auras" and healing yourself.

I think we should stick to one claim that could be proven.

You said that you know if a person is dead or alive because you could read/feel the presence of their energy.

How did you do this in Jason's case? Did you stare at his photo and then go into a trance-like state?

What would you need to know about a person in order to do this? Would just their name suffice? Could you do it by photo alone without a name?

Your answers could supply the basis for testing, but I'll let the real skeptics jump in and take this and apply the appropriate testing parameters.

As a reminder for new readers, Zoe made the claim that she knows my son is dead because his energy no longer exists on earth. It would seem that an ability such as this could be tested.

Kelly

Kelly, you write like you've been here all your life. Your questions are an excellent lead-up to a quite testable protocol involving Zoinked looking at several pictures of people and telling if she believes they are alive or dead. I'm very interested in reading her reply.

 

[Kelly]

Kelly, you write like you've been here all your life. Your questions are an excellent lead-up to a quite testable protocol involving Zoinked looking at several pictures of people and telling if she believes they are alive or dead. I'm very interested in reading her reply.

Thank you. I must have learned something from hanging around the pros. It does, however, seem like common sense to ask these questions and use this claimed ability in testing.

 

[Gravy]

Zoinked, If you really believe you have the power you claim to have, I think you MUST have that claim tested. Not for our edification, but for yours. The subject of your claim is so sensitive that it would not only be wrong for you to tout it without knowing that it works, it would be immoral. And I don't throw that word around lightly.

I'm not talking about applying for Randi's prize, but about being tested in any well-designed, reliable, impartial way.

If you don't think your special ability is reliable enough to be tested, then you certainly shouldn't be trying to use it in real-life situations.

If you are tested and do show paranormal ability, wouldn't it be great to be the first human being to achieve that?

And if the test shows that you're simply an exceptional person with normal abilities, well, that's not such a bad thing to be.