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Lab safety violations

American

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"Dr. Shigeru Omi, the WHO's Western Pacific regional director, told reporters in Manila, the Philippines, that the Taiwanese scientist was working without protective gear, such as gloves and a gown."

Taiwan Lab Worker Contracts SARS


What are some violations you have seen or situations that have bothered you that should be addressed but never are until someone gets hurt? I'll start:


- Most safety goggles don't seem to slant down far enough, especially on school children. An exploding liquid could easily shoot up under the glasses straight into your eyes.

- Safety showers are often built without drains, making one reluctant to use it when they should at the price of flooding the building. Also, you're supposed to strip contaminated clothing off of you... although I am the sexiest scientist I've ever known and don't mind being naked in public, I knew one elder gentleman past his physical prime who was too modest to remove his shirt soaked with corrosive chromium-something. He got burned.

- I know professors who pick up ethidium bromide stained gels with their bare hands. They get huffy when I suggest they wear gloves.

- There are fanatical fans of mercury thermometers over alcohol-based. They rant that the EPA is out to get them, while the agency unfairly allows mercury-vapor headlights.

- Some tasks must be done under a fume hood. Unless it's slightly awkward, then they just don't bother.


My point is that the doctor who died may have been breaking the safety rules, but there are many places where you have to break them or they won't want you working there. Except once a year when government inspectors come through, and then you're supposed to memorize MSDS and practice all the safety rules you never use.

(*This is all based on my distant past experience, not my current employer who is really a monolith of safety. God, don't fire me.)
 
American said:
"
What are some violations you have seen or situations that have bothered you that should be addressed but never are until someone gets hurt? I'll start:


We have so many safety inspections here we call the chief inspector "Dr. Blix". ;)
 
Well, I'm a Safety Engineer in a government research laboratory, so this thread certainly caught my interest.:)



American said:
"Dr. Shigeru Omi, the WHO's Western Pacific regional director, told reporters in Manila, the Philippines, that the Taiwanese scientist was working without protective gear, such as gloves and a gown."

Taiwan Lab Worker Contracts SARS


What are some violations you have seen or situations that have bothered you that should be addressed but never are until someone gets hurt? I'll start:

I could fill up pages with examples of stuff I've seen, but I'd bore you.




- Most safety goggles don't seem to slant down far enough, especially on school children. An exploding liquid could easily shoot up under the glasses straight into your eyes.
Can I suggest that the person should be wearing a full face shield and possibly should be working behind a benchtop blast shield?

- Safety showers are often built without drains, making one reluctant to use it when they should at the price of flooding the building. Also, you're supposed to strip contaminated clothing off of you... although I am the sexiest scientist I've ever known and don't mind being naked in public, I knew one elder gentleman past his physical prime who was too modest to remove his shirt soaked with corrosive chromium-something. He got burned.
Our safety showers don't have floor drains either, since they weren't required by regulation back in the 70's and 80's, but most governmnet worker won't worry about flooding the building.:D Some of our showers have "modesty" curtains around them, but most don't. Our employees are instructed to strip the clothes off a person without asking their permission (more or less).
- I know professors who pick up ethidium bromide stained gels with their bare hands. They get huffy when I suggest they wear gloves.
I'm not familiar with ethidum bromide, but I don't have too much of a problem with glove use in my lab. We have over 25,000 different chemicals in the lab, so people are used to working in gloves while handling any chemical.

- There are fanatical fans of mercury thermometers over alcohol-based. They rant that the EPA is out to get them, while the agency unfairly allows mercury-vapor headlights.
We have mercury spill kits in the hallways and also have the capability to suck up small spills with a vacuum pump/trap setup

- Some tasks must be done under a fume hood. Unless it's slightly awkward, then they just don't bother.
We have so many hoods operating, the researchers are never more than a few steps away from one, so it's typically not a problem where I work.

I did have a PhD. Materials Engineer contaminate a rather large laboratory once by grinding arsenic compounds at her desk with a mortar and pestle. (Her: "You mean arsenic is toxic ?")


My point is that the doctor who died may have been breaking the safety rules, but there are many places where you have to break them or they won't want you working there. Except once a year when government inspectors come through, and then you're supposed to memorize MSDS and practice all the safety rules you never use.
First, can I ask if you've reported these safety problems you've noticed to anyone in management? Do you have a safety person at work that you can talk to? Never mind, you did say these were at a previous employer.

Anyhow, if you live the the US, you can always call OSHA and make a complaint. They can always do a no notice inspection.

(*This is all based on my distant past experience, not my current employer who is really a monolith of safety. God, don't fire me.)
Hey, even if you didn't call OSHA, you could argue in your lawsuit that you were fired for complaining about safety issues. Juries generally don't like employers that do that. :)
 
Unsecured compressed gas cylinders really give me the willies. Along with people who don't treat autoclaves with the proper caution. Unfortunately, in the academic environment there is generally no formal procedure for training grad students to use this stuff, and many don't take safety advice seriously when they do receive it. :mad:
 
wayrad said:
Unsecured compressed gas cylinders really give me the willies. Along with people who don't treat autoclaves with the proper caution. Unfortunately, in the academic environment there is generally no formal procedure for training grad students to use this stuff, and many don't take safety advice seriously when they do receive it. :mad:
Did something change? In the U.S., back in the 70s, biological labs handling unsafe agents were certified as P1, P2, etc. The standards set for each one were very clear, and all personnel had to be trained to enter such labs.
 
BillHoyt said:

Did something change? In the U.S., back in the 70s, biological labs handling unsafe agents were certified as P1, P2, etc. The standards set for each one were very clear, and all personnel had to be trained to enter such labs.
Don't know about wayrad, but the lab I work in is not a biological lab, and doesn't fall under any of the certification standards you mentioned.

We are only governed by OSHA and Air Force safety standards.
 
BillHoyt said:

Did something change? In the U.S., back in the 70s, biological labs handling unsafe agents were certified as P1, P2, etc. The standards set for each one were very clear, and all personnel had to be trained to enter such labs.
I am not familiar with those designations, but I wonder if they correspond to the current Biosafety Level I, II etc. designations. To my recollection (I left my lab's manuals at my old institution), those deal primarily with procedures for handling/disposal of biological materials (edited to add: also storage and handling of chemicals, come to think of it), not equipment usage (although access to certain equipment is required to meet the standards for some levels).

I worked during the early /mid 90's at a federal lab with mandatory training, and I don't remember any P designations there either, although there were various OSHA and EPA standards to be met. Perhaps the nomenclature has just been changed.

Edited to add: Aha, there are some online copies of the biosafety level standards, so I could refresh my memory. The verbiage on training is vague in the extreme, and pretty much leaves it up to the lab director to say what constitutes "training". In practice, this can mean having one student run another through a procedure. And of course large equipment items like autoclaves are usually communal, which introduces all sorts of confusion.
 
P1,2,3 &4 are physical containment designations equivalent to BSL or BL 1,2,3 and 4 designed for recombinant DNA research. They are spelled out in the following document:

www.oecd.org/dataoecd/15/63/2389725.doc

The Ministry of Health and Welfare Notification No. 1997-22



Guidelines for researches involving recombinant DNA molecules in accordance with the provisions of Article 15 of the Biotechnology Promotion Law and Article 15 of the Enforcement Ordinance of the same law shall be established as follows.

(truncated)



April 22, 1997

Minister of Health and Welfare





Guidelines for researches involving recombinant DNA molecules
 
SteveGrenard said:
P1,2,3 &4 are physical containment designations equivalent to BSL or BL 1,2,3 and 4 designed for recombinant DNA research. They are spelled out in the following document...
Aha, so that's it. Thank goodness I don't work with recombinant DNA (yet).

Edited to add: On second thought, since this appears to be an international standard established in 1997, it seems not to be what Bill was talking about. He was talking about a standard used in the US in the 70's. Perhaps he can clarify further.
 
What is this lab safety? Come on it's not real chemistry is you leave the labs with the same colour hands as went in with. I mean if it didn't kill me last time it's not going to this time(Now you know why you have problems with students and safety).
 
geni said:
What is this lab safety? Come on it's not real chemistry is you leave the labs with the same colour hands as went in with. I mean if it didn't kill me last time it's not going to this time(Now you know why you have problems with students and safety).
You would have liked my Intro. Chem. class back in 1972. The final lab involved identification of organic compounds by smell...
 
Heres a follow-up to the original post from the listserv of the International Society for Infectious Diseases.

<http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,1-935255,00.html>


Singapore: contacts of Taiwanese SARS case quarantined
------------------------------------------------------
Singapore ordered 70 people into quarantine today after a Taiwanese
scientist who visited the country this month tested positive for SARS virus
infection. Singapore's Health Ministry urged hospitals and private clinics
to step up vigilance, but said that there was no cause for alarm and there
were no new cases of the flu-like virus in the city-state. "There are no
signs of new SARS cases in Singapore and we are monitoring the situation
closely," the Ministry said. SARS killed 33 people in Singa ...(truncated) see above URL for complete story.
 
geni said:
What is this lab safety? Come on it's not real chemistry is you leave the labs with the same colour hands as went in with. I mean if it didn't kill me last time it's not going to this time(Now you know why you have problems with students and safety).
Hehe,:) . That's similar to the story I often hear:

Lab Rat: "We've been doing it this way for (x) years".

My response: Well, you've been lucky for (x) years.
 
wayrad said:
You would have liked my Intro. Chem. class back in 1972. The final lab involved identification of organic compounds by smell...

Okay, class. The vials are marked A, B and C. One is butylene, one putrescine, and the third cadaverene. Please sniff and identify. Have your smelling salts at the ready.
 
SteveGrenard said:
Heres a follow-up to the original post from the listserv of the International Society for Infectious Diseases.

<http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,1-935255,00.html>


Singapore: contacts of Taiwanese SARS case quarantined
------------------------------------------------------
Singapore ordered 70 people into quarantine today after a Taiwanese
scientist who visited the country this month tested positive for SARS virus
infection. Singapore's Health Ministry urged hospitals and private clinics
to step up vigilance, but said that there was no cause for alarm and there
were no new cases of the flu-like virus in the city-state. "There are no
signs of new SARS cases in Singapore and we are monitoring the situation
closely," the Ministry said. SARS killed 33 people in Singa ...(truncated) see above URL for complete story.

<table cellspacing=1 cellpadding=4 bgcolor=#cc6666 border=0><tr><td bgcolor=#cc6666><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color=#ffffff size=1>Poste by hal:</font></td></tr><tr><td bgcolor=white><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color=black size=2>This thread has been reported, for copyright violations. However, it appears to have seen been edited, so is not a violation as I see it now.

hal
</font></td></tr></table>
 
BillHoyt said:


Okay, class. The vials are marked A, B and C. One is butylene, one putrescine, and the third cadaverene. Please sniff and identify. Have your smelling salts at the ready.
Yes, like that, except different chemicals. Some esters, if I remember correctly, and enough organic solvents so that my head hurt when I left. They'd never be able to do it nowadays.
 
wayrad said:
Yes, like that, except different chemicals. Some esters, if I remember correctly, and enough organic solvents so that my head hurt when I left. They'd never be able to do it nowadays.

Not quite true. At A level chiral compounds are intoduced by useing a smell test. There is also some stuff about what esters and ketones smell like.
 
geni said:


Not quite true. At A level chiral compounds are intoduced by useing a smell test. There is also some stuff about what esters and ketones smell like.
Ah, sorry for the imprecision; it was the solvents I meant. I'm sure sniffing xylene can't be good for you...

edited to add: Chiral compounds? No kidding? Do the enantiomers smell different?:eek:
 
BillHoyt said:


Okay, class. The vials are marked A, B and C. One is butylene, one putrescine, and the third cadaverene. Please sniff and identify. Have your smelling salts at the ready.

You left out thioglycolic acid, Bill, and methyl mercaptin.
 
American said:
(*This is all based on my distant past experience, not my current employer who is really a monolith of safety. God, don't fire me.)

You work for God?!!






(sorry... I saw that line and I just HAD to be a smartass)
 

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