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Knowledge begets responsibility which begets guilt

coberst

Critical Thinker
Joined
Jul 17, 2006
Messages
415
Knowledge begets responsibility which begets guilt

Guilt is both a curse and a salvation. I conclude that guilt is perhaps one of the few internal mechanisms that can prevent human self-destruction.

Rational analysis and recognition of self preservation can drive us to correcting problems that have immediate and visible impact on our life but it is this internal friction we call guilt upon which we must depend for avoiding long term consequences resulting from our behavior.

Guilt is difficult to analyze because it is ‘dumb’. It is a feeling of being blocked and frustrated without knowing why we feel that way. This develops when embraced by powerlessness while clutched by the unknown. Guilt is a bind of life.

A feeling of guilt emanates from our peculiar ability to apprehend life’s totality but unable to move in relation to it. “This real guilt partly explains willing subordinacy to his culture: after all, the world of men is even more dazzling and miraculous in its richness than the awesomeness of nature. Also, subordinacy comes naturally from man’s basic experience of being nourished and cared for; it is a logical response to social altruism.”—Ernest Becker.

Stewardship-- the conducting, supervising, or managing of something... the careful and responsible management of something entrusted to one's care...

Stewardship is a word used often in the Bible and was at one time used often in England. It was used in England because the youth of the landed aristocracy was taught that they were responsible for the care of the family properties in such a way that they passed on to the next generation an inheritance equal to but more appropriately larger than that received. Each generation was not the owner but was the steward for the family estates. Any individual who squandered the inheritance was a traitor to the family.

I am inclined to think that each human generation must consider itself as the steward of the earth and therefore must make available to the succeeding generations an inheritance undiminished to that received.

In this context what does "careful and responsible management" mean? I would say that there are two things that must be begun to make the whole process feasible. The first is that the public must be convinced that it is a responsible caretaker and not an owner and secondly the public must be provided with an acceptable standard whereby it can judge how each major issue affects the accomplishment of the overall task. This is an ongoing forever responsibility for every nation but for the purpose of discussion I am going to speak about it as localized to the US.

Selfishness and greed are fundamental components of human nature. How does a nation cause its people to temper this nature when the payoff goes not to the generation presently in charge but to generations yet to come in the very distant future? Generations too far removed to be encompassed by the evolved biological impulse to care for ones kin.

How is it possible to cause a man or woman to have the same concern for a generation five times removed as that man or woman has for their own progeny?

I suspect it is not possible, but it does seem to me to be necessary to accomplish the task of stewardship.

Guilt may be our only hope for human acceptance of the responsibility of stewardship.


The questions I would like to ask everyone are:

1) Do you agree that the acceptance of stewardship responsibility for this planet is vitally important?
2) Do you think that this human characteristic of guilt can be important for stewardship to happen?
3) Do you have a different idea whereby this stewardship might develop?
4) Do you give a damn?
 
Sadly, some people have no guilt whatever, and have never experienced it. If guilt is the basis of ensuring adequate stewardship, it all goes downhill from there.
 
Sadly, some people have no guilt whatever, and have never experienced it. If guilt is the basis of ensuring adequate stewardship, it all goes downhill from there.

Psychology informs me that guilt happens. We have a propensity for guilt but it appears that people can repress this feeling to the point that it perhaps just disappears.
 
Perhaps some people just don't things that they know or think will make them feel guilty.



Repression is part of human nature. The conscious ego represses those matters that are in the unconscious because the ego seeks to stop all forms of anxiety when possible.

Psychology informs me that the ego represses the unconscious but as we sleep the ego evidently sleeps also. The ego cannot repress the unconscious while we sleep and the unconscious bubbles up to the surface of consciousness through dreams. Dreams are evidence of the unconscious and the unconscious is a cornerstone of classical psychology.
 
Repression is part of human nature. The conscious ego represses those matters that are in the unconscious because the ego seeks to stop all forms of anxiety when possible.

Sounds like Freudian or Jungian pseudoscience to me.

Psychology informs me that the ego represses the unconscious but as we sleep the ego evidently sleeps also.

Evidence please.

The ego cannot repress the unconscious while we sleep and the unconscious bubbles up to the surface of consciousness through dreams. Dreams are evidence of the unconscious and the unconscious is a cornerstone of classical psychology.

Er no it isn't, it may have been the cornerstone of a lot of Freud and Jung's pseudoscience but thankfully science has moved on since those days.
 
Isn't the title a long-winded way of saying "ignorance is bliss"?



Re: "Psychology informs me".... How recently was that?
 
Sounds like Freudian or Jungian pseudoscience to me.



Evidence please.



Er no it isn't, it may have been the cornerstone of a lot of Freud and Jung's pseudoscience but thankfully science has moved on since those days.

My evidence is contained in these books that I have been reading. I have noticed that I often get these kinds of derogatory comments when I mention Freud or psychology. I generally assume this is just a bit of sophomoric bluff and bluster. Perhaps you have evidence to support such comments.

Escape from Evil--Becker
The Denial of Death--Becker
Life against Death--Brown
Death and Rebirth of Psychlogy--Progoff
 
Isn't the title a long-winded way of saying "ignorance is bliss"?



Re: "Psychology informs me".... How recently was that?

Just in the last few days. I have been reading about psychology for the last several months.
 
1) Do you agree that the acceptance of stewardship responsibility for this planet is vitally important?
2) Do you think that this human characteristic of guilt can be important for stewardship to happen?
3) Do you have a different idea whereby this stewardship might develop?
4) Do you give a damn?


1) Maybe ... what's in it for me?
2) Not at all. Humans are far too individualistic to respond to mere global needs unless forced to do so (see #3).
3) An ultimatum to "Fix it or else," imposed by ultra-powerful extra-terrestrial aliens and/or God might do it.
4) Okay ... DAMN ... may I go now?
 
My evidence is contained in these books that I have been reading. I have noticed that I often get these kinds of derogatory comments when I mention Freud or psychology. I generally assume this is just a bit of sophomoric bluff and bluster. Perhaps you have evidence to support such comments.

Escape from Evil--Becker
The Denial of Death--Becker
Life against Death--Brown
Death and Rebirth of Psychlogy--Progoff

When you provide the evidence for your claims I will see if your evidence needs to be addressed.
 
I have answered your request for evidence. What is your evidence for your statements?


No you haven't, you have stated that the evidence is in "4 books", that is not providing evidence for your claims, it is just making another claim.
 
Just in the last few days. I have been reading about psychology for the last several months.

Thank you for the answer!

Actually, given your sources, they have told you this in 1975, 1973, 1959 and 1956, respectively. And none of the authors are psychologists. Becker is a Cultural Anthropologist, and the others are Psychoanalysts. As scientific sources go, they are quite out-dated, although they may well be fascinating.

In a science, 30+ years is a long time. In this case, the dominant paradigm of the '50's has long since gone the way of the dinosaur. Psychoanalysis is still seen in literary criticism, and perhaps (I honestly don't know--but your sources indicate that as of the '70's it was the case) in cultural anthropology. I suggest reading some of Jared Diamond's "Guns, Germs, and Steel" for a vastly different perspective on Cultural Anthropology.
 
1) Do you agree that the acceptance of stewardship responsibility for this planet is vitally important?
The acceptance by whom? If you'd tighten up your question, it might be answerable.
2) Do you think that this human characteristic of guilt can be important for stewardship to happen?
No.
3)Do you have a different idea whereby this stewardship might develop?
A far better presentation of the need for it than you give, certainly.
4) Do you give a damn?
Yes, about a lot of things.

Suggestion for future queries: be less bombastic and more specific.

DR
 
Repression is part of human nature. The conscious ego represses those matters that are in the unconscious because the ego seeks to stop all forms of anxiety when possible.

Psychology informs me that the ego represses the unconscious but as we sleep the ego evidently sleeps also. The ego cannot repress the unconscious while we sleep and the unconscious bubbles up to the surface of consciousness through dreams. Dreams are evidence of the unconscious and the unconscious is a cornerstone of classical psychology.

The cornerstone of bogus conflation, misattribution and vauge wishful thinking.

Fact you can waste your life and hundreds of thousands of dollars trying to get help from the mumbo jumbo neofreudian unresearched and unethical practioners.

Fact you can get help in twelve weeks from clinicaly proven and replicated therapies that are not based upon a bunch of pschomystic hooie.
 
Oh my gosh, he's back.

Guilt is only possible if certain parts of the thalamus/hypothalamus, and a number of close-knit gene-expressed parts are intact, can communicate the right chemicals to each other and (I think) reach the frontal lobe. You can surgically remove that which causes guilt, as well as be born without it, or simply born with a 'damaged' system.

Guilt can also be trigged with medication, or depression, and the feeling does not require rationalization.

That guilt is an anatomical process completely falsifies your mumbo jumbo, dude.
 
Guilt doesn’t seem to have made humans more responsible towards their environment over the last
few thousand years. I don’t have any reason to believe it will start happening any time soon.

1) Do you agree that the acceptance of stewardship responsibility for this planet is vitally important?

1. No.

Important to whom ? This planet will be dust some day, one way or another. There is really nothing we can do about that ..
The only possibility of human survival, is to leave this planet.
I say we take what we need to accomplish that task and get out of Dodge ASAP …
What we leave behind, and in what condition, is ultimately of no importance.
 

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