Kerry lied, racist style

[Nie Trink Wasser]

John Kerry:

"We've got more African Americans in jail than we do in college. That's unacceptable," he added.

In fact, it seems that there are more than twice as many African Americans in college than in jail.

http://www.reuters.co.uk/newsPackageArticle.jhtml?type=worldNews&storyID=546079&section=news

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U.S. Census Bureau (2000): African Americans in college: 2,224,181

http://factfinder.census.gov/servle...ame=DEC_2000_SF3_U_P147B&-format=&-CONTEXT=dt


U.S. DoJ Office of Justice Programs: "Prison and Jail Inmates at MidYear 2003" (p.11): "Table 13. Number of inmates in state or federal prisons or local jails" -- Black Americans in jail: 899,200.

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/pdf/pjim03.pdf

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http://www.usefulwork.com/shark/archives/002309.html

 

[corplinx]

Well, did he actually lie or do you think he probably just didn't know the facts?

 

[a_unique_person]

Only about 1,000,000 in jail, that's acceptable.

 

[Snide]

Regardless of which candidate had said this, I would presume he missed a qualifier in the stats somewhere. SUch as "more inner-city African Americans" or something like that.

Or that he just got the facts wrong. I wouldn't call anyone a liar, but I would expect a correction of the facts.

 

[American]

Let's let them all go, and send them to college. All they have to do is fill out an application and sign their name on it.

Good luck with that task, "homey".

 

[Diezel]

Only about 1,000,000 in jail, that's acceptable.

Ahhh, AUP! I've so missed the way you can completely miss the actual point of something and turn it into something you want to see!

Good to see you are still around when I decided to come back as a regular poster!

 

[Tmy]

He probably meant "young black males". Im not sure how that would change the numbers.

 

[Nie Trink Wasser]

Well, did he actually lie or do you think he probably just didn't know the facts?

I think he doesnt care about the facts.

sort of like the "BUSH LIED PEOPLE DIED" crowd.

 

[Tmy]

I think he doesnt care about the facts.

sort of like the "BUSH LIED PEOPLE DIED" crowd.

Yes its exactly the same. I'm sure all sorts of people came at him with proof of other statistics and he decided to ignore it. Instead he took this information as the real stats, and then plunged the country into war that costs billions of dollars and thousands of lives.

 

[crimresearch]

Discussing the statement as a lie seems to be somewhat of a red herring to the fundamental issue.

Is it possible to become a viable candidate for high office without developing a mindset that is fueled by:
a> Factoids and sound bites
b> Assumptions such as the one which places blacks as more likely to be convicts than coeds.

Is it OK for a President (or would be President) to hold that assumption, whether they are doing it for patronizing reasons or for malevolent ones?

Isn't it pretty much in the nature of the poltical process to weed out the thoughtful, the humane, the analytical, and the observant, leaving us with dull knee jerk reactionaries and demagogues to choose between?

 

[Snide]

Isn't it pretty much in the nature of the poltical process to weed out the thoughtful, the humane, the analytical, and the observant, leaving us with dull knee jerk reactionaries and demagogues to choose between?

Perhaps it's more about our nature as decision-makers in America regarding anything, our attention span, and other things. The political process just stays consistent with our tendencies. Just a theory...

 

[CBL4]

The actual fact is that approximately 2.4 millions blacks are in jail, on parole or on probation which is more than the 2.2 million you say are in college. I imagine Kerry remembered the jist of it but misremembered the details.

From the Department of Justice

I have completed the math from the link (rounded for simplicity):
1,200,000 black probationers (31% of 4,000,000)
300,000 black paroless (42% 0f 750,000)
900,000 blacks in jail - from Nie Trink Wasser
2,400,000 = 1,200,000+300,000+900,000

CBL

 

[jj]

Accusing Kerry of a lie, in the face of the same individual's throughly apologetic defenses of the present criminal administration, who has lied over and over, and shown no remorse even when caught, demonstrates the dishonestly of the accuser more than anything else.

Given the base, obvious dishonesty involved, I have to question any "fact" reported by such an obviously immoral individual as one one who cried "liar" in this case.

Did Kerry lie? No idea. Did he make a mis-statement? I have no idea, because I have seen so many dishonest extractions from context on the part of liars like Craplinks, NTW, BobbyK, etc, on this board.

 

[Whoracle]

I've heard this claim before, So I don't think it's an outright lie. Probly some crock of S spouted by the NAACP that everyone just accepts as a fact.

 

[crimresearch]

"The actual fact is that approximately 2.4 millions blacks are in jail, on parole or on probation which is more than the 2.2 million you say are in college. I imagine Kerry remembered the jist of it but misremembered the details"

Really?...why the omission of all the black alumni and dropouts from colleges when pumping up the "in jail" figure with extraneous numbers of those no longer in jail?

"In jail" means currently incarcerated...not clients of the system, not acquitted, not released, not used to be in jail...it means exactly what it says.
And "in college" works the same way, so without the one sided inflation of numbers, the orgiinal statement stands on its own merits... and it is a statement not supported by the facts.
There are NOT more blacks in jail than in college.

 

[hgc]

Accusing Kerry of a lie, in the face of the same individual's throughly apologetic defenses of the present criminal administration, who has lied over and over, and shown no remorse even when caught, demonstrates the dishonestly of the accuser more than anything else.

Given the base, obvious dishonesty involved, I have to question any "fact" reported by such an obviously immoral individual as one one who cried "liar" in this case.

Did Kerry lie? No idea. Did he make a mis-statement? I have no idea, because I have seen so many dishonest extractions from context on the part of liars like Craplinks, NTW, BobbyK, etc, on this board.

Someone piss in your Wheaties?

Why so upset that NTW lied? It's as natural as Bush knocking back a cold one and snorting up a line.

 

[CBL4]

?...why the omission of all the black alumni and dropouts from colleges when pumping up the "in jail" figure with extraneous numbers of those no longer in jail?

1) People who are on parole or probation are still under the control of the prison system and have severely restricted rights. They are by no means free men.
2) People who graduate from college are permanently "alumni". People who graduate from prison, parole and probation are no longer under the control of the justice department. If you would to do an acurate comparison to alumni you would need to include everyone who has ever been in jail.

If you do not think that the fact that fewer blacks are in college than under the control of the prison system is meaningless, that is your right. I personally find it appalling.

This kind of misquoting/misremembering by Kerry is common. Somewhere along the line someone read under the control of the prison system and assumes jails or misremembers the details. Pretending that it is a deliberate lie is an inflamatory tactic. People make mistakes. I personally will not call you a liar everytime you misrember something.

CBL

 

[WildCat]

The actual fact is that approximately 2.4 millions blacks are in jail, on parole or on probation which is more than the 2.2 million you say are in college. I imagine Kerry remembered the jist of it but misremembered the details.

From the Department of Justice

I have completed the math from the link (rounded for simplicity):
1,200,000 black probationers (31% of 4,000,000)
300,000 black paroless (42% 0f 750,000)
900,000 blacks in jail - from Nie Trink Wasser
2,400,000 = 1,200,000+300,000+900,000

CBL

But it's not a meaningful statistic. A better one would be to compare college-aged (18-24) blacks in prison vs. in jail/probation. Not doing so is intended to pump up the statistics to "prove" some political point.

Maybe if the Democrats who run all the big-city schools in this country would, say, educate their students there would be less blacks in jails? And ending the moronic "war on drugs" would be helpful also.

 

[crimresearch]

"People who are on parole or probation are still under the control of the prison system and have severely restricted rights. They are by no means free men.
...People who graduate from college are permanently "alumni". People who graduate from prison, parole and probation are no longer under the control of the justice department. If you would to do an acurate comparison to alumni you would need to include everyone who has ever been in jail."

Incorrect and frankly a very sloppy use of numbers...apples and oranges with a heavy dose of sophistry as a rationale for cooking the numbers.
In jail is in jail...in college is in college.
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"If you do not think that the fact that fewer blacks are in college than under the control of the prison system is meaningless, that is your right. I personally find it appalling."

Feel free to hold whatever stereotypical views of black people, and their tendency towards prison or education that you wish.
Your numbers are still flawed, and the concept as presented is still derogatory to minorities.
Too bad that you don't mention finding *that* appalling.
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" This kind of misquoting/misremembering by Kerry is common. Somewhere along the line someone read under the control of the prison system and assumes jails or misremembers the details. Pretending that it is a deliberate lie is an inflamatory tactic. People make mistakes. I personally will not call you a liar everytime you misrember something."

As several people here will tell you, I on the other hand, will be quick to point out *your* untruths when you post them, such as implying that I misquoted Kerry or called him a liar, when I did no such thing.

Perhaps you mistyped the URL and are on the wrong forum..this one is for skeptics who want factual references...the alt.politics.rhetoric forum is down the hall.

 

[Snide]

[B
"If you do not think that the fact that fewer blacks are in college than under the control of the prison system is meaningless, that is your right. I personally find it appalling."

Feel free to hold whatever stereotypical views of black people, and their tendency towards prison or education that you wish.
[/B]

You got that from that?!