Just Another Magic Trick?

[tapman]

I have been thinking of the million dollar challenge. Is it just another one of the amazing Randi's magic tricks? I really wonder. There is another magician out there that has offered Randi money to accept his challenge, and Randi has not. Everyone on here said it was a trick, and it was controlled by the magician, and it was a hoax.
Isn't Randi's challenge controlled by him also. Randi is a great magician too, better than the other guy.
Isn't Randi's challenge worthy of skepticism?
If I were a great magician, and was offering a million dollars of my hard earned money, I would make sure no one could win it.
Given that premise, and the fact that Randi is one of the smartest guys around, don't you think Randi's trick million dollar challenge is somehow rigged so no one can win it. I kinda do.
If it is a trick, and no one has been able to win it, doesn't that make it Randi's greatest magic trick of all times. And if you accept that premise, doesn't that make Randi the greatest magician of all time?
Just thinkin
Your friend Tapman

 

[kerikiwi]

The challengre does not need to be rigged so no one can win it.
No one can win it because the things they claim to be able to do are either lies or delusions.

 

[plumjam]

I've asked a couple of times, and no one seems able to deny that the final arbiter as to whether the million is won/lost is Randi himself.
If that is so, and the only judge happens to be a guy who has spent his life's work saying one thing, then the chances of him saying another... thus negating the position he has fought for all his life... well, to me at least, that is not a situation conducive to a fair and independent judgment.
The fact that 'skeptics' seem not to question this (on the contrary some of them take the fact that the million has never been won as proof positive that the paranormal does not exist) is comical.
These big money offers are, in the end, cheap publicity stunts.

 

[kerikiwi]

...
The fact that 'skeptics' seem not to question this (on the contrary some of them take the fact that the million has never been won as proof positive that the paranormal does not exist) is comical.
These big money offers are, in the end, cheap publicity stunts.

Actually, until the prize is won they are not cheap publicity stunts. They are absolutely and completely free publicity.
Can you point us to some of those skeptics who take the fact that the million has never been won as proof positive that the paranormal does not exist?
Or did you just make that up?

 

[Wowbagger]

I've asked a couple of times, and no one seems able to deny that the final arbiter as to whether the million is won/lost is Randi himself.

Randi does not need to be the final arbiter of the million dollars. He is willing to allow a third, independent party, to asses the test results, that the two parties are mutually willing to trust.

Technically, there is no "judging" the test results. It is an empirical test, not reliant on subjectivity. Either the person does what he or she says they can do. Or not.

The fact that 'skeptics' seem not to question this (on the contrary some of them take the fact that the million has never been won as proof positive that the paranormal does not exist) is comical.

Anyone who claims the lack of winners is positive proof that the paranormal does not exist is not being a very good skeptic.

 

[jimtron]

Let's say, for the sake of this argument, that the Challenge is bogus (I've read a lot about Randi and the Challenge, and believe them both to be legit--this is hypothetical). Where are the people with real powers? Forget about Randi, but if you can bend spoons with your mind, or predict the future, how about demonstrating it to someone else, but under proper test conditions, and then shut us skeptics up?

Tapman, do you believe that anyone truly has paranormal powers? If so, please specify. Also, which magician has challenged Randi?

 

[Akhenaten]

I have been thinking of the million dollar challenge.

There are certainly many aspects of the challenge deserving of some consideration. Many of us do the same thing, I'm sure.

Is it just another one of the amazing Randi's magic tricks? I really wonder.

Oh, so you haven't really been thinking about the challenge at all. Just fantasizing. Fair enough.

There is another magician out there that has offered Randi money to accept his challenge, and Randi has not. Everyone on here said it was a trick, and it was controlled by the magician, and it was a hoax.

There is? He didn't? They did?

How did I miss all of this?

Isn't Randi's challenge controlled by him also.

Nup

Randi is a great magician too, better than the other guy.

Mr Randi is definitely a better magician than the other guy. Somebody told me so.

Isn't Randi's challenge worthy of skepticism?

Everything is.

If I were a great magician, and was offering a million dollars of my hard earned money, I would make sure no one could win it.

That would make you a fairly unethical person. Fortunately, Mr Randi IS an ethical person, so your solution would not work for him.

Given that premise, . . .

Not likely. It's not even a premise; it's just something you made up to describe your lack of ethics.

. . . and the fact that Randi is one of the smartest guys around, don't you think Randi's trick million dollar challenge is somehow rigged so no one can win it.

No

I kinda do.

So you kinda said.

If it is a trick, and no one has been able to win it, doesn't that make it Randi's greatest magic trick of all times.

Is there such a thing as a false trichotomy? If so, this is probably what it would look like.

And if you accept that premise, doesn't that make Randi the greatest magician of all time?

Your poorly constructed premise has nothing to do with your rhetorical question. That might cause you a few difficulties in arguing your point.

Just thinkin

Yep. Only just though.

Your friend Tapman

My friend Tapman what? Lost all his commas in a card game?

 

[HghrSymmetry]

Where are the people with real powers?

Presumably all over the place. At least there doesn't seem to be a lack of people claiming they have special powers.

Forget about Randi, but if you can bend spoons with your mind, or predict the future, how about demonstrating it to someone else, but under proper test conditions, and then shut us skeptics up?

That's precisely the point...all the claims and abilities disappear when subjected to rigours scientific testing. Apparently these powers are sensitive to scientific observation (insert quantum woo here).

 

[tapman]

I've asked a couple of times, and no one seems able to deny that the final arbiter as to whether the million is won/lost is Randi himself.
If that is so, and the only judge happens to be a guy who has spent his life's work saying one thing, then the chances of him saying another... thus negating the position he has fought for all his life... well, to me at least, that is not a situation conducive to a fair and independent judgment.
The fact that 'skeptics' seem not to question this (on the contrary some of them take the fact that the million has never been won as proof positive that the paranormal does not exist) is comical.
These big money offers are, in the end, cheap publicity stunts.

cheap or not, they do seem like publicity stunts. Lets face it magicians love to fool people, and love an audience. I seems that when their careers are dwindling they all get on the skeptic band wagon. Penn, Chris Angel, and even Randi and Houdini. Let's face it, no one cared about Penn and teller on the national stage until they came up with the ******** show. Pretty good career boost if you ask me.

Don't get me wrong, I love all these guys, but it does make one a little skeptical that all the magicians become skeptics when they start hitting the skids.
gives them well needed publicity as well as a new audience.

 

[tapman]

Let's say, for the sake of this argument, that the Challenge is bogus (I've read a lot about Randi and the Challenge, and believe them both to be legit--this is hypothetical). Where are the people with real powers? Forget about Randi, but if you can bend spoons with your mind, or predict the future, how about demonstrating it to someone else, but under proper test conditions, and then shut us skeptics up?

Tapman, do you believe that anyone truly has paranormal powers? If so, please specify. Also, which magician has challenged Randi?

I honestly don't know because I've never seen it myself. However, I do have an open mind to the possibilities. To categorically say that anything supernatural is not possible doesn't seem very thoughtful to me.If science has taught us anything, It is that the world is a place we understand little about.

 

[tapman]

There are certainly many aspects of the challenge deserving of some consideration. Many of us do the same thing, I'm sure.






Oh, so you haven't really been thinking about the challenge at all. Just fantasizing. Fair enough.






There is? He didn't? They did?

How did I miss all of this?






Nup






Mr Randi is definitely a better magician than the other guy. Somebody told me so.






Everything is.






That would make you a fairly unethical person. Fortunately, Mr Randi IS an ethical person, so your solution would not work for him.






Not likely. It's not even a premise; it's just something you made up to describe your lack of ethics.






No






So you kinda said.






Is there such a thing as a false trichotomy? If so, this is probably what it would look like.






Your poorly constructed premise has nothing to do with your rhetorical question. That might cause you a few difficulties in arguing your point.






Yep. Only just though.






My friend Tapman what? Lost all his commas in a card game?

Ah! well done. I think

 

[learner]

I have been thinking of the million dollar challenge. Is it just another one of the amazing Randi's magic tricks? I really wonder. There is another magician out there that has offered Randi money to accept his challenge, and Randi has not. Everyone on here said it was a trick, and it was controlled by the magician, and it was a hoax.
Isn't Randi's challenge controlled by him also. Randi is a great magician too, better than the other guy.
Isn't Randi's challenge worthy of skepticism?
If I were a great magician, and was offering a million dollars of my hard earned money, I would make sure no one could win it.
Given that premise, and the fact that Randi is one of the smartest guys around, don't you think Randi's trick million dollar challenge is somehow rigged so no one can win it. I kinda do.
If it is a trick, and no one has been able to win it, doesn't that make it Randi's greatest magic trick of all times. And if you accept that premise, doesn't that make Randi the greatest magician of all time?
Just thinkin
Your friend Tapman

My friend. My understanding of the million dollar challenge is that the money is not Randi's, its donated money.
Any supernatural person able to demonstrate thier powers to an agreed protocol has a legal right to the money.
How has some dullard ( ad hominem, I don't care) that says they can make someone involuntarily pee, by thinking about it, been tricked?

 

[tapman]

My friend. My understanding of the million dollar challenge is that the money is not Randi's, its donated money.
Any supernatural person able to demonstrate thier powers to an agreed protocol has a legal right to the money.
How has some dullard ( ad hominem, I don't care) that says they can make someone involuntarily pee, by thinking about it, been tricked?

My problem is exactly what you've stated, "agreed protocol". There in lies the trick? I don't really know, just thinking here.

BTW what happens to the interest the million is making. At 5% that's 50k a year. How many years has he had the million, and where is the interest, and who gets the interest. Interesting thought?

 

[Monza]

All one has to do is read the rules. There is no judge to decide if a challenge is won or lost. The rules are mutually agreed up front between Randi and the claimant. It is a legal contract and can't be "rigged".

 

[tapman]

All one has to do is read the rules. There is no judge to decide if a challenge is won or lost. The rules are mutually agreed up front between Randi and the claimant. It is a legal contract and can't be "rigged".

C'mon someone as smart as Randi can rig anything. Really.


How many claimants have gotten in to negotiations and walked because the rules were stacked against them.

Again, just wondering.

 

[learner]

Agreed protocol means that the challenger states how they will demonstrate their abilities. If this amounts to.."just believe me i am reading your thoughts" the demonstration will naturally not be accepted. An alternative/modification will be suggested. It is a challenge after-all. It must be a two way negotiation ( unless course, the challenger proposes a simple workable test not requiring modification) Once a protocol has been agreed by both sides that will prove emphatically that the said abilities will be proven, the demonstration will go ahead. For Randi to be able to trick his way through 20/30 years of tests is hardly believable. how did he personally stop the tester I mentioned previously, involuntarily peeing himself. Remember, Randi doesn't take part in the tests unless invited to do so. He is as often as not in a different continent. ( there is an incontinent joke there somewhere)

 

[tapman]

Ageed protocol means that the challenger states how they will demonstrate their abilities. If this amounts to.."just believe me i am reading your thoughts" the demonstrtion will naturaly not be accepted. An alternative/modification will be suggested. It is a challenge afterall. It must be a two way negotiation ( unless,of course, the challenger proposes a simple workable test not requiring modification) Once a protocol has been agreed by both sides that will prove emphaticaly that the said abilities will be proven, the demonstration will go ahead. For randi to be able to trick his way through 20/30 is hardly believable. how did he personaly stop the tester involuntarily peeing himself, remember Randi doesnt take part in the tests unless invited to do so. He is as often as not ina different continent. ( thre is an incontinent joke there somewhere)

I'm surprised that you don't see how one would be skeptical of this whole thing. Just because it's Randi doesn't make it true. Remember, he did spend his whole life tricking people. And he did it very well. Wouldn't it be a great trick to set up a challenge and the circumstances so that no one could pass it. Sure keeps you at the top of the skeptics list. Easy to get on tv, and sell books. Sounds like a pretty good way to make a living.;

 

[learner]

C'mon someone as smart as Randi can rig anything. Really.


How many claimants have gotten in to negotiations and walked because the rules were stacked against them.

Again, just wondering.

They walk because they have been found out and are afraid that they will be shown to be the frauds that they are. Its that simple.

Not wondering

 

[learner]

I'm surprised that you don't see how one would be skeptical of this whole thing. Just because it's Randi doesn't make it true. Remember, he did spend his whole life tricking people. And he did it very well. Wouldn't it be a great trick to set up a challenge and the circumstances so that no one could pass it. Sure keeps you at the top of the skeptics list. Easy to get on tv, and sell books. Sounds like a pretty good way to make a living.;

How did he stop the peeing. tie a knot in it from a different country? the calim was involuntary peeing.

 

[tapman]

How did he stop the peeing. tie a knot in it from a different country? the calim was involuntary peeing.

I don't think I care about the peeing as much as you. Your friend. Tapman