Judge Puts Commandments on Robe

[Brown]

From Yahoo and AP:

A judge refused to delay a trial Tuesday when an attorney objected to his wearing a judicial robe with the Ten Commandments embroidered on the front in gold.

Circuit Judge Ashley McKathan showed up Monday at his Covington County courtroom in southern Alabama wearing the robe. Attorneys who try cases at the courthouse said they had not seen him wearing it before. The commandments were described as being big enough to read by anyone near the judge.
...
McKathan told The Associated Press that he believes the Ten Commandments represent the truth "and you can't divorce the law from the truth. ... The Ten Commandments can help a judge know the difference between right and wrong."

He said he doesn't believe the commandments on his robe would have an adverse effect on jurors.

"I had a choice of several sizes of letters. I purposely chose a size that would not be in anybody's face," he said.

It is no surprise, but ousted Judge Moore thinks that that wearing a robe emboidered with the Ten Commandments is a good thing.

The article did not say WHICH version of the commandments Judge McKathan chose to use. Chances are he selected the same version as Judge Moore, a version that would be--according to Catholics, Lutherans and Jews--an incorrect version of the holy text.

One can only hope that by June of next year, the Supreme Court will put all of this Ten Commandments stupidity to an end.

 

[Brown]

I should add that this matter should be--and perhaps will be--referred to the Alabama body that disciplines judges and judicial officers. Judges usually recognize that they need to regulate themselves in order to maintain confidence in the judicial branch.

 

[Luke T.]

A PLEDGE PIN! ON. YOUR. UNIFORM!?!?

 

[hgc]

...

One can only hope that by June of next year, the Supreme Court will put all of this Ten Commandments stupidity to an end.

Yeah, uh huh. And will it be Chief Justice Scalia or Chief Justice Thomas who will pen the opinion? Welcome to the Christian States of America.

 

[hgc]

A PLEDGE PIN! ON. YOUR. UNIFORM!?!?

LOL. Spit when you say that!

 

[Cleon]

WTF is in the water in Alabama?

Good thing they're there, though; sometimes I think "At least we're not Alabama" should be the Georgia state motto.

 

[Luke T.]

Here's Millard's commentary on the sculpture above the east entrance to the Supreme Court Building:


The sculpture over the east portico of the building is entitled: JUSTICE THE GUARDIAN OF LIBERTY. Moses is the central figure holding the two tablets of THE TEN COMMANDMENTS, one in either hand, stark reminder of the origin and basis of our legal system.

Here is Millard's commentary on the friezes on the walls of the Supreme Court Chamber:


The inner courtroom of the Supreme Court shows four marble bas-relief panels beneath the ceiling on each of the four walls. Each has a particular story to tell. The panel directly above the bench where the Chief Justice and eight Associate Justices are seated, depicts "The Power of Government" and "The Majesty of the Law." Between these two allegorical figures, THE TEN COMMANDMENTS stand out in a position of prominence. The seated figure representing "The Power of Government" has his elbow squarely resting upon God's Ten Commandments, showing from whence our power is derived.

http://members.tripod.com/~candst/tnppage/arg8c.htm

One can only hope that by June of next year, the Supreme Court will put all of this Ten Commandments stupidity to an end.

Good luck with that.

 

[AtheistArchon]

WTF is in the water in Alabama?

- Several things:

1. Substandard public education.
2. An ongoing social meme that reinforces itself upon each generation that dictates that xianity is correct, necessary, and that one cannot trust a non-xian.
3. Low state revenue (comparitively), combined with the fact that most Alabamians are blue-collar workers. Alabama is not a technological mecca, nor is it considered heavy in science, with the possible exception of some NASA offices.
4. A reputation that keeps freethinkers, open-minded people, and a diverse cultural selection away from the state: witness the recent upholding of a segregation law.

- Ooh, I feel a moment of heavy cynicism coming on...

- There's little hope for Alabama in the near future in regards to a freethinking/enlightened/educated populace. The infrastructure just isn't there. They elect fundies because that's what makes up the majority of the people, and while fundies are in office they'll promote fundy agendas - including making lots more little fundie kids (in various ways). Aggravating the trend is the migration of intellectuals away from the state specifically because they seek a less theocratic environment. Atlanta is only two hours away, after all.

 

[Luke T.]

I'm wearing a Fairhope, Alabama T-shirt at this very moment.

 

[Brown]

Re: Re: Judge Puts Commandments on Robe

Yeah, uh huh. And will it be Chief Justice Scalia or Chief Justice Thomas who will pen the opinion? Welcome to the Christian States of America.

Not likely. If Chief Justice Rehnquist is unable to participate in the decision (note that he did not participate in two decisions issued just this week), then the acting chief would be the senior justice, who is Justice Stevens.

Being chief does not give a justice's vote any more weight than any other, but the chief does have the power to assign the opinion to a particular justice.

 

[TragicMonkey]

There's little hope for Alabama in the near future in regards to a freethinking/enlightened/educated populace. The infrastructure just isn't there. They elect fundies because that's what makes up the majority of the people, and while fundies are in office they'll promote fundy agendas - including making lots more little fundie kids (in various ways). Aggravating the trend is the migration of intellectuals away from the state specifically because they seek a less theocratic environment. Atlanta is only two hours away, after all.

Alabama will inevitably be liberalized; only accelerated global warming is likely to stop it. The reason is that Florida is filling up with retirees, so retiring baby boomers are starting to flock to Georgia and South Carolina. Once the first wave has driven the property values too high, the second wave will select other states that have a low cost of living and a warm climate. North Carolina, Alabama, and Mississippi would be next. Eventually the entire South will be full of old people from all over the country, old people who aren't particularly fundamentalist, but do love to vote and receive Medicare and Social Security.

Although if global warming works fast enough, other states might be warm enough to attract the retirees. By the time I can retire, Canada will be almost tropical!

 

[Bob Klase]

McKathan told The Associated Press that he believes the Ten Commandments represent the truth "and you can't divorce the law from the truth. ... The Ten Commandments can help a judge know the difference between right and wrong."

So after reading the Constitution, about 10 billion laws on the books, upteen years of law school and he still doesn't know the difference between right and wrong?

Or maybe he never bothered reading the Constitution. Guess it won't be long until he's giving jail time to people who covet thy neighbour's car or work on his sabbath day.

 

[hgc]

Alabama will inevitably be liberalized; only accelerated global warming is likely to stop it. The reason is that Florida is filling up with retirees, so retiring baby boomers are starting to flock to Georgia and South Carolina. Once the first wave has driven the property values too high, the second wave will select other states that have a low cost of living and a warm climate. North Carolina, Alabama, and Mississippi would be next. Eventually the entire South will be full of old people from all over the country, old people who aren't particularly fundamentalist, but do love to vote and receive Medicare and Social Security.

Although if global warming works fast enough, other states might be warm enough to attract the retirees. By the time I can retire, Canada will be almost tropical!

With Florida mostly underwater, Alabama will fill up a lot faster than you think. And they'll blame the rising seas on the ACLU for keeping prayer out of schools.

 

[Brown]

Re: Re: Judge Puts Commandments on Robe

Originally posted by Luke T., quoting another:
Here is Millard's commentary on the friezes on the walls of the Supreme Court Chamber:


The inner courtroom of the Supreme Court shows four marble bas-relief panels beneath the ceiling on each of the four walls. Each has a particular story to tell. The panel directly above the bench where the Chief Justice and eight Associate Justices are seated, depicts "The Power of Government" and "The Majesty of the Law." Between these two allegorical figures, THE TEN COMMANDMENTS stand out in a position of prominence. The seated figure representing "The Power of Government" has his elbow squarely resting upon God's Ten Commandments, showing from whence our power is derived.

Actually, this is dead wrong.

The east wall frieze depicts the Bill of Rights (Gasp! There are Ten Amendments!), not the Ten Commandments. Anyone who has done his homework would know that.

The south wall frieze shows Moses with tablets, along with other historical figures (Menes, Hammurabi, Solomon, Lycurgus, Solon, Draco, Confucius and Octavian). Moses is not given any special prominence, and no English text of any commandments are included. In fact, the only portions of commandments that are even visible (in Hebrew) are those pertaining to secular law.

On the exterior east portico, Moses is indeed the central figure. But the tablets that he holds are blank--they include no text at all. In addition, Moses is depicted with two other figures of comparable size: Confucius and Solon, and they are flanked by other smaller figures. Moses is not included on the exterior west portico, which is where the entrance to the Supreme Court is located.

There are a lot of folks out there who think that the Ten Commandments are on display in the Supreme Court building, but they are often grossly misinformed.

 

[Chanileslie]

You know, I have no problem with this judge wearing the ten commandments - to me it is no different than those WWJD braclets or pendents that were so popular for so long. It is a personal choice in his wardrobe. Now, if the robes were purchased and embroidered at the publics expense then I would have more of a problem. Also, unlike the ten commandments monument, this is a personal item to the individual, not something that proclaims this is how the whole court is run. The man is a believer and that is acceptable in this country. I also reserve the right to wear clothes embroidered with God is a myth or to wear a Darwin Fish or just the words Evolution is a FACT! That is a personal choice.

 

[toddjh]

You know, I have no problem with this judge wearing the ten commandments - to me it is no different than those WWJD braclets or pendents that were so popular for so long. It is a personal choice in his wardrobe.

On his own time, that's fine. When acting as an agent of the state, however, personal wardrobe choices can't help but be mixed with official policy, and a little more discretion is required.

That goes double for judges. They're supposed to present the appearance of objectivity and neutrality -- that's their job. Faced with a judge whose religious beliefs are evidently so strong that he can't help but advertise them on his freakin' robes, I think any non-Christian would legitimately wonder if he would be receiving a fair hearing.

Pulling crap like this undermines confidence in the system (and face it, Alabama could use some help in that regard). All Constitutional issues aside, it's simply poor behavior as an employee. If I made wardrobe decisions that undermined my employers, they'd certainly be justified in asking me to shape up.

Jeremy

 

[Luke T.]

Re: Re: Re: Judge Puts Commandments on Robe

There are a lot of folks out there who think that the Ten Commandments are on display in the Supreme Court building, but they are often grossly misinformed.

Okay. I'll try again. This time the link has a photo of them.

Edited to add: And this is from the U.S. Supreme Court's own web site! So there!

Throughout the history of western art, tablets have been used to signify —the Law.“ This tradition is closely associated with Moses, the Hebrew lawgiver, who according to the Book of Exodus descended from Mount Sinai with two stone tablets inscribed with the Ten Commandments. Over time, the use of two tablets has become a symbol for the Commandments, and more generally, ancient laws. Tablets signify the permanence of the law when —written in stone.“ Locations: In three spots, as part of larger sculptural groups, Moses is depicted with tablets: in the North Courtroom frieze, in the East Pediment and in one of the Great Hall metopes. Other tablets with the Roman numerals IoeX appear on the support frame of the Courtroom‘s bronze gates (left);

http://www.supremecourtus.gov/about/symbolsoflaw.pdf

See page 2, top left photo

edited to add photos found on another site:

 

[Luke T.]

Indeed, the ceiling frieze of the main U.S. Supreme Court chamber includes -- along with other symbols of jurisprudence -- a depiction of Moses holding two overlapping tablets on which the Ten Commandments are written in Hebrew. But the figure is just one of many carved icons and not singled out for any special attention. Only commandments 6 through 10 are visible.

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/opinion/131093_means17.html

 

[Brown]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Judge Puts Commandments on Robe

Okay. I'll try again. This time the link has a photo of them.

Edited to add: And this is from the U.S. Supreme Court's own web site! So there!

This is all consistent with what I said. Page 2 of the link shows the east frieze tablets, and specifically identifies it as "The Bill of Rights." Folks who say that this tablet represents the commandments are wrong.

I incorrectly said that Moses is on the south frieze. He is acutally on the north frieze.

The Court's own discussion states that Moses is a part of "larger scuptural groups," which is what I described earlier.

Nowhere in the Supreme Court is there an English text of any commandments. The north frieze shows, as I said: "only portions of commandments that are even visible (in Hebrew) are those pertaining to secular law." No matter how you number the commandments (whether you use the Baptist version or the "Readers Digest" version or the Lutheran version), commandments 6-10 pertain to secular, not religious, duties.

 

[TragicMonkey]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Judge Puts Commandments on Robe

Actually, it's ambiguous. There's nothing to prove these are supposed to represent the Ten Commandments as opposed to the Bill of Rights. The shape of the tablets might suggest it to some...but then, law has a history of appearing on such shaped tablets. All those Roman tablets, for example. Lex something.

Also, aren't the Ten Commandments supposed to be broken down unevenly between slabs? One through three on the first, four through ten on the second? That's what I was taught, and that's what all the Catholic images of them I've seen portrayed. Is it different in other denominations?

I suspect, cynic that I am, that the artist was being deliberately ambiguous here, as a tongue-in-cheek point about the separation of church and state and how people will see what they want to.