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Joint Relief Formulas

Hardenbergh

Graduate Poster
Hardenbergh
Joined
Jul 12, 2004
Messages
1,073
Do you think that arthritis and joint pain supplements are beneficial? My mother has osteoarthritis in her hips and spine as well as osteopenia and my father has arthritis in his hips and shoulders. I've been reading about Iceland Health Joint Relief and Zyflamend from New Chapter.

A friend of mine who works at a local health food store recommends the Zyflamend. Her husband has used it for quite a few years and he said that it really takes the edge off his pain. He says it isn't a cure but it keeps him from feeling like he'd like to kill someone. It makes the pain more bearable and manageable.

I spoke of my father in the Wormdigger thread. He's now 75 years old and still digging marine worms. It's getting harder for him every year as he has to walk through mud that almost sucks the boots off your feet. Then he's bent over the whole tide until he moves to a different spot. He keeps going because he said, "I don't want to quit until I have to. If I stop, I'd just stay home and die." He said that if he doesn't keep moving, the arthritis will get worse.

http://www.icelandhealth.com/jointrelief.html

http://www.new-chapter.com/product/product.lasso?-Search=Action&-Table=P_Web&-Database=NewChapter&-KeyValue=108
 
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Hardenbergh said:
http://www.icelandhealth.com/jointrelief.html
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I can't speak to the other ingredients, but I looked into chondroitin/glucosamine supplements a while back. My dad started taking one or the other (not both, for some reason, which is a mistake, I think - there seems to be synergy) for his joint pain, and I've got a former student (younger woman, but with knee problems) who tried these. Both, last I asked, were having positive results.

There is some research that suggests benefits from chondroitin and glucosamine, but mostly in associated with knee pain; I don't remember much positive w.r.t other joints.

See
http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?tool=pubmed&pubmedid=16558667
http://bjsm.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/full/37/1/45
http://www.thorne.com/altmedrev/.fulltext/3/1/27.pdf
http://archinte.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/full/162/18/2113

You could probably do a PubMed search and get a more complete list (and maybe some contradicting studies), these are just what I have handy.

I suppose comparative shopping would be in order - you might get generics cheaper.
 
Hardenbergh said:
Do you think that arthritis and joint pain supplements are beneficial? My mother has osteoarthritis in her hips and spine as well as osteopenia and my father has arthritis in his hips and shoulders. I've been reading about Iceland Health Joint Relief and Zyflamend from New Chapter.

A friend of mine who works at a local health food store recommends the Zyflamend. Her husband has used it for quite a few years and he said that it really takes the edge off his pain. He says it isn't a cure but it keeps him from feeling like he'd like to kill someone. It makes the pain more bearable and manageable.
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It is equally irrational to take advice from someone at a health-food store or an anonymous poster on the Internet. I don't mind discussing the generalities of quackery; but I draw the line at giving specific advice beyond- consult a medical professional.
 
Well, this article says there are studies showing chondroitin to be ineffective in reducing pain. It gives some links to the studies. And this article quotes a study showing both glucosamine and chondroitin to be ineffective. (Actually both articles state these supplements are no better than placebo.) But I guess there is some hope that both used together *might* help certain people. I'm not sure about the Zyflamend.

The best thing your father can do is go to a doctor and talk to the doctor about it. He is right in thinking that keeping active will keep the pain down somewhat. But it's pretty important to have a doctor in on what he is taking, if anything, because it can have repercussions.
 
We give our Golden Retriever a veterinary glucosamine/chondritin (sp?) formulation, and though at 15 - quite old for a GR - her hips' lateral stability is poor, she still runs around. While I can't say what's due to genetics, nutrition, and the general care we give her, there's my anecdotal "evidence" that it helps.
 
JJM said:
It is equally irrational to take advice from someone at a health-food store or an anonymous poster on the Internet. I don't mind discussing the generalities of quackery; but I draw the line at giving specific advice beyond- consult a medical professional.
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The same person at the health food store has also refused to take thyroid medicine. I guess she's attempting to take care of the problem on her own through diet. I've noticed that she has the bulging eyes like some people with thyroid problems. She also mentioned that her heart races after walking up the stairs. She's also gone to a holistic practictioner for colon hydrotherapy or colonic irrigation. As far as what she told me about the Zyflamend helping her husband, I don't have any reason to disbelieve her. I've known her for many years.

Udo's Choice Oil Blend is another product that's supposed to be helpful for joint problems and many other things.

http://udoerasmus.com/products/oil_blend_en.htm
 
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Hardenbergh said:
The same person at the health food store has also refused to take thyroid medicine. I guess she's attempting to take care of the problem on her own through diet. I've noticed that she has the bulging eyes like some people with thyroid problems. She also mentioned that her heart races after walking up the stairs. She's also gone to a holistic practictioner for colon hydrotherapy or colonic irrigation.
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So, she is thoroughly ignorant.
Hardenbergh said:
As far as what she told me about the Zyflamend helping her husband, I don't have any reason to disbelieve her. {snip}
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Huh? Aside from the fact that anecdote is meaningless (you have been posting here for a while- haven't you learned that?); how uncomprehending does a person have to be in order to engender doubt in your mind?
 
JJM said:
So, she is thoroughly ignorant. Huh? Aside from the fact that anecdote is meaningless (you have been posting here for a while- haven't you learned that?); how uncomprehending does a person have to be in order to engender doubt in your mind?
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She may not be using good judgment in some things but that doesn't mean I have to reject everything she says. The Zyflamend is about $35 (more if you buy the vegicaps) so I don't think her husband wants to waste his money for nothing.
 
Hardenbergh said:
She may not be using good judgment in some things but that doesn't mean I have to reject everything she says. The Zyflamend is about $35 (more if you buy the vegicaps) so I don't think her husband wants to waste his money for nothing.
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I'm sure he doesn't want to waste his money either, but that does not prove that Zyflamend works. He could be getting a "placebo" effect from taking the stuff. What you need is an actual clinical trial, double-blinded, done in a correct way. If such a study shows it works, and his doctor believes it will help without reacting with something else he is taking, that is the time to fork over the money.

Lots of times people think something happened a certain way when it did not happen the way they think it did. That's why anecdotal evidence isn't worth much.
 
Hardenbergh said:
She may not be using good judgment in some things but that doesn't mean I have to reject everything she says. {snip}
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This is true, any person can be right about something. However, this person is an ignoramus, I repeat: "how uncomprehending does a person have to be in order to engender doubt in your mind?" It seems your OP expressed doubts, now you defend the bogus advice against all reason. Are you a troll, hoping to sell junk?

If you are genuine- consult a medical doctor.
 
I am not very old, but I am an avid rock climber. Doing this puts lots and lots of stress on the tendons of the fingers, and alot of climbers, myself included, develop problems with the tendons of the fingers. Glucosamine supplements are very popular, especially those which also contain MSM.

I know several other climbers who claim to have gotten positive results, and have been taking it for about a month now. I haven't noticed any improvement, but most say it takes a month or so to kick in.
 
I realize this sounds harsh, but I mean it sincerely.

The best advice you can give your father is to not accept your advice. You are not being given good information and I don't see any indication that you can sort through this on your own. Please do not tell him to spend money on expensive supplements. Let him discuss it with his doctor.

Linda
 
JJM said:
This is true, any person can be right about something. However, this person is an ignoramus, I repeat: "how uncomprehending does a person have to be in order to engender doubt in your mind?" It seems your OP expressed doubts, now you defend the bogus advice against all reason. Are you a troll, hoping to sell junk?

If you are genuine- consult a medical doctor.
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I just picked up a bottle at the health food store. It's on sale at 25% off during the month of August so I thought it would be a good time to try it. They recommend taking one capsule instead of two for two weeks to get accustomed to it. Some people might be sensitive to some of the ingredients. They usually recommend doing that anyway when introducing something new into your system. Here's what Dr. Andrew Weil has to say about Zyflamend:

http://health.yahoo.com/ate/drweil/alldaily/2005/05/20050520

My father said he'd never agree to getting a hip replacement although I don't think he's quite reached the point of needing surgery just yet. He's been taking Aleve but only when he really needs it.

I don't think my mother would take it anyway. She's taking medicine for her thyroid, cholesterol, blood pressure and a calcium supplement. The osteoarthritis has limited her activities in the past year. She's discouraged as it's much harder for her to keep up with her housework. She loves to work out in her yard but she pays for it the next day when she does more than she's really able to do. She used to be able to do trimming and clipping on her knees for hours on end. One day a few weeks ago, she was outdoors on her knees and my father had to help her get up as she had been on her knees too long.

It might be just hope in a bottle but what else is there? When people are desperate, they're willing to try anything. I know a man that works at a garage who has bad knees. He says that he's waiting for them to perfect the surgery before he'll undergo the operation. He's not a mechanic--he schedules appointments and things (on the business end). His boss bought him a golf cart to make it easier to get around. They also have a storage unit business at the same location.

According to Consumer Health Digest, Zyflamend is one of the top 10 natural pain relievers.

http://consumerhealthdigest.com/top10pain.htm?source=google/Zyflamend
 
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sir drinks-a-lot said:
I am not very old, but I am an avid rock climber. Doing this puts lots and lots of stress on the tendons of the fingers, and alot of climbers, myself included, develop problems with the tendons of the fingers. Glucosamine supplements are very popular, especially those which also contain MSM.

I know several other climbers who claim to have gotten positive results, and have been taking it for about a month now. I haven't noticed any improvement, but most say it takes a month or so to kick in.
Click to expand...

The woman at the health food store said that her husband took the Zyflamend about a week before he noticed improvement.
 
consumerhealthdigest appear to sell zyflamend - so maybe not the most impartial source of information? At any rate - especially if the person taking this is on other meds - this is *really* something they should discuss with their Dr or pharmacist before taking the pills (natural herbs can still cause negative side effects, and drug interactions).

If you're interested in finding 'non-drug' ways to help your parents deal with joint pain, have them discuss ways to manage their joint problems with a doctor or dietician. If they are going to be considering supplement pills etc., it makes sense to at least get advice as to what is a) safe and b) most likely to be useful.
 
fls said:
I realize this sounds harsh, but I mean it sincerely.

The best advice you can give your father is to not accept your advice. You are not being given good information and I don't see any indication that you can sort through this on your own. Please do not tell him to spend money on expensive supplements. Let him discuss it with his doctor.

Linda
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My father never even had a complete physical until a couple years ago. He was brought up in a family that didn't do much doctoring. My father's mother was a diabetic and she ended up losing one of her legs. She died within a year after her leg was amputated. She had a leg ulcer that she neglected to have treated in time.

My father has had surgery for a hernia many years ago when he injured himself on the job. He wouldn't go to the doctor unless it meant that he would be out of work. He's not much for preventive medicine, I guess. He was also exposed to asbestos on his job but he never put in a claim for it. He used to come home from the shipyard and his hair would be covered with it. When he was checked for asbestosis, the chest x-ray showed evidence of exposure on his lung but he said he doesn't think that it's caused him too many problems with his breathing. He stopped smoking about 20 years ago.

I just found an article about asbestos exposure that really scared me. This was before people knew about the dangers. I was also reading in some articles that symptoms of asbestosis might not even appear until 20 or 30 years after exposure.

http://www.honoluluweekly.com/archives/coverstory 2001/12-05-01 Stealth/12-05-01 Stealth.html
 
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I asked my father this morning about the asbestos exposure. He said that he actually had to wash his hair before coming home after work. He worked the night shift. He said that it might have been a combination of asbestos and wax dust as he used to buff the asbestos tile floors in all the buildings in the shipyard. He was exposed to asbestos when he stripped the floors with a buffer that had a wire brush on it. By disturbing the wax, he was exposed to the asbestos. When he retired in 1997, after 46 years, there were still asbestos floors although they were gradually replacing them. When he had an X-ray as part of his physical, he asked the doctor about the asbestos. My father asked him, "Did you see the asbestos?" The doctor replied, "I sure did." He said that about all he could do is keep active to exercise his lungs as much as possible. My father has certainly done that all his life. He's worked harder than anyone I know.

Before the 1970s, shipyard and iron works employees often had inadequate safety equipment to protect them from hazardous cancer-causing substances such as asbestos and were vulnerable to develop lung diseases such as mesothelioma. Types of workers typically exposed to asbestos include machinists, millwrights, welders, metal casters, and operators of various cutting, pressing, and grinding machines.
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http://www.maacenter.org/jobsites/metalworks/bathironworks.php

There's a very small attic in my parents' home with asbestos insulation. My father went up there twice to check on something and came down coughing. The third time, he wore a protective mask. I don't think he'll ever go up there again. Between the lead paint (underneath the new paint), the radon in the cellar and the asbestos in the attic, they're not very good selling points. It will be very expensive to clean it up. Someone with a lot of money may buy it as is any pay for the work themselves but it would be difficult getting a mortgage financed through a bank unless all the problems are taken care of first. The house is over 100 years old.
 
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