Jogging in Georgia while black.

[TurkeysGhost]

A black man, Ahmaud Arbery, was shot dead while out for a jog in Georgia after being confronted by two armed white men attempting a citizen's arrest.

The two white men set up a roadblock with their truck and confronted the unarmed Arbery. In the brief exchange, Arbery struggled with one of the men over a shotgun, and was shot dead.

local GA law enforcement ruled this an acceptable case of self defense, despite little to no evidence that Arbery was doing anything suspicious that would justify armed men attempting to apprehend him.

Public outcry, including from Joe Biden, has lead to the case being sent over to the Grand Jury for possible indictment.

CNN managed to get their hands on video of the incident and it's hard to see this as anything but a broad-daylight murder.

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/05/05/us/ahmaud-arbery-jogging-georgia-shooting/index.html?utm_term=link&utm_medium=social&utm_content=2020-05-06T00%3A57%3A26&utm_source=twCNN

At best, the men had the authority to follow Arbery and send law enforcement to that location, Merritt said. The 911 calls show the call taker was asking the men what Arbery is doing that was of criminal concern, Merritt said.
"They didn't give any answer for that, they said, 'He's a black man running down our road,'" Merritt said.

According to GA prosecutors that passed on the case, murdering unarmed black men for refusing to explain why they are jogging on white roads is not a crime. The DA watched this video and decided that there wasn't probable cause for an arrest.

One of the killers is a former police officer.

 

[Sideroxylon]

Like a trip through Taliban controlled Afghanistan or something.

 

[dann]

"white roads"?!

 

[Bogative]

The most enjoyable part of being a member of ISF is watching the "OMG-America-is-so-racist" social justice mob fall for stories like this without being the least bit skeptical before they work themselves into a frenzy and step directly on the rake laid out in front of them and get whacked right in the face.

Never gets old.

 

[JoeMorgue]

The most enjoyable part of being a member of ISF is watching the "OMG-America-is-so-racist" social justice mob fall for stories like this without being the least bit skeptical before they work themselves into a frenzy and step directly on the rake laid out in front of them and get whacked right in the face.

Never gets old.

So your argument is the video is some sort of deep fake?

A truck load of people saw the black guy choking while jogging so they all jumped out and try to all perform the heimlich on him at once?

What exactly, and please be precise (precise, no vaguary about "waiting to here the whole story" unless you're willing to present a version of this story that isn't insane), are you "skeptical" about?

 

[varwoche]

The most enjoyable part of being a member of ISF is watching the "OMG-America-is-so-racist" social justice mob fall for stories like this without being the least bit skeptical before they work themselves into a frenzy and step directly on the rake laid out in front of them and get whacked right in the face.

Never gets old.

Did you read the story? Have you seen the video? I suspect not.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

The most enjoyable part of being a member of ISF is watching the "OMG-America-is-so-racist" social justice mob fall for stories like this without being the least bit skeptical before they work themselves into a frenzy and step directly on the rake laid out in front of them and get whacked right in the face.

Never gets old.

Please, elaborate, what should we be skeptical about in this story ?

Appears to be a well documented murder, imo.

 

[pgwenthold]

The most enjoyable part of being a member of ISF is watching the "OMG-America-is-so-racist" social justice mob fall for stories like this without being the least bit skeptical before they work themselves into a frenzy and step directly on the rake laid out in front of them and get whacked right in the face.

Never gets old.

Hey, maybe YOU can tell us what the person was doing that warranted him being shot?

I'm listening.

 

[pgwenthold]

Please, elaborate, what should we be skeptical about in this story ?

Appears to be a well documented murder, imo.

No, no, no. Super skeptical means you have to assume that there must have been some reason for him to be shot. You can't question whether they had a good reason to shoot him.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

"white roads"?!

Some editorializing from your's truly.

I'm taking the liberty to assume "random black guy that fits the description of some dubious burglary suspect" really means "black guy in the wrong neighborhood".

The verbatim quote from the 911 call is "He's a black man running down our road".

 

[pgwenthold]

Now, what I learned in high school civics class is that a citizen's arrest can only be made when there is a felony in progress. You can absolutely apprehend a burgler who is robbing a bank or robbing your house.

Citizen arrests cannot be made for misdemeanors (so when Barney Fife taught Gomer Pyle that he could do a citizen's arrest for a traffic violation, that was incorrect).

So the question is, what felony was this person committing that warranted a citizen's arrest?

 

[Ranb]

There is a video at this link, but it will not play for me. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ahmaud-arbery-black-jogger-georgia-fatal-shooting-video/

Ranb

 

[TurkeysGhost]

Now, what I learned in high school civics class is that a citizen's arrest can only be made when there is a felony in progress. You can absolutely apprehend a burgler who is robbing a bank or robbing your house.

Citizen arrests cannot be made for misdemeanors (so when Barney Fife taught Gomer Pyle that he could do a citizen's arrest for a traffic violation, that was incorrect).

So the question is, what felony was this person committing that warranted a citizen's arrest?

The claim of the killers is that this man matches the description of a suspicious person (potential burglar) seen on previous nights.

Even if you grant their extremely dubious claim, there is no evidence that Arbery was committing a crime or fleeing a crime scene at the time of the killing.

DA's opinion on the matter:

https://int.nyt.com/data/documenthelper/6916-george-barnhill-letter-to-glyn/b52fa09cdc974b970b79/optimized/full.pdf#page=1

The DA's decision not to prosecute gives the two killers an absurdly generous reading of what constitutes probable cause for a citizen's arrest. I see no mention of any evidence that Arbery was fleeing a crime other than the killer's claim that he matches the description of a suspicious person from a previous event.

 

[Thermal]

For those who didn't see the vid or have trouble loading CNN on mobile:

No one says anything about 'white road's.

The video is filmed by someone else chasing down the action. I would think this shows that there was some run up prior to the shooting (do you typically film while driving down roads?)

The truck is stopped in the road and the jogger, Arbery in white shirt, is running up from behind it. Jethro with the shotgun is outside, in the front of the truck, drivers side. Arbery veers around to the passenger side, still running, then runs over to grab Jethro with the gun. That's probably where the self defense angle comes from.

Although I can't imagine what interpretation of Georgia law allows Jethro to be in the street with a loaded shotgun. Would have to be equally self defense for Arbery, no? Hillbilly accosting you with a shotgun in the street should put a brother in fear of imminent grave harm, yes?

 

[TurkeysGhost]

For those who didn't see the vid or have trouble loading CNN on mobile:

No one says anything about 'white road's.

The video is filmed by someone else chasing down the action. I would think this shows that there was some run up prior to the shooting (do you typically film while driving down roads?)

The truck is stopped in the road and the jogger, Arbery in white shirt, is running up from behind it. Jethro with the shotgun is outside, in the front of the truck, drivers side. Arbery veers around to the passenger side, still running, then runs over to grab Jethro with the gun. That's probably where the self defense angle comes from.

Although I can't imagine what interpretation of Georgia law allows Jethro to be in the street with a loaded shotgun. Would have to be equally self defense for Arbery, no? Hillbilly accosting you with a shotgun in the street should put a brother in fear of imminent grave harm, yes?

"White roads" is my editorializing. Sorry that was unclear.

GA has a citizens arrest law, but it is pretty clearly limited to those fleeing a crime scene witnessed by the people trying to apprehend. I can't see how this black man matching the description of a suspicious person from a previous night meets this requirement.

 

[Thermal]

"White roads" is my editorializing. Sorry that was unclear.

GA has a citizens arrest law, but it is pretty clearly limited to those fleeing a crime scene. I can't see how this black man matching the description of a suspicious person from a previous night meets this requirement.

Even via citizen's arrest, no felony was taking place. Just wandering around with a shotgun on the streets or even in the car strikes me as surely illegal? CCW for a handgun is one thing, but this seems like a whole nuther level. Cel not cooperating to Google Ga law.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

Even via citizen's arrest, no felony was taking place. Just wandering around with a shotgun on the streets or even in the car strikes me as surely illegal? CCW for a handgun is one thing, but this seems like a whole nuther level. Cel not cooperating to Google Ga law.

The DA's analysis goes roughly like this:

1) They were lawful to pursue and apprehend because of the citizens arrest law (biggest whopper, IMO)

2) Open carry of long guns is legal. (no mention that open carrying does not allow brandishing, which this clearly was)

3) Self defense with no duty to retreat is legal, so it was acceptable to shoot once the scuffle for the shotgun started. (Arbery has the much stronger self-defense claim)

The DA is bending over backwards to grant these people the benefit of these laws.

Trying to apprehend someone that you think matches the description from a previous crime does not meet the reasonable standard of the citizens arrest. There is no reporting that Arbery was witnessed committing a crime on the day of the shooting, he was out for a jog. Calling this a hot pursuit of someone fleeing a crime, as the DA does, is absurd on its face.

Blocking the road and displaying firearms is obviously not open carry, but brandishing. They were chasing him, displaying firearms, and demanding Arbery surrender himself to their custody. Arbery was within his lawful right to interpret this is a lethal threat and fight with any means available to him.

 

[Thermal]

The DA's analysis goes roughly like this:

1) They were lawful to pursue and apprehend because of the citizens arrest law (biggest whopper, IMO)

2) Open carry of long guns is legal. (no mention that open carrying does not allow brandishing, which this clearly was)

3) Self defense with no duty to retreat is legal, so it was acceptable to shoot once the scuffle for the shotgun started. (Arbery has the much stronger self-defense claim)

The DA is bending over backwards to grant these people the benefit of these laws.

Trying to apprehend someone that you think matches the description from a previous crime does not meet the reasonable standard of the citizens arrest. There is no reporting that Arbery was witnessed committing a crime on the day of the shooting, he was out for a jog.

Blocking the road and displaying firearms is obviously not open carry, but brandishing and clearly a threat, and Arbery was within his lawful right to interpret this is a lethal threat and fight with any means available to him.

Yeah, that's pretty much how I see it too. I think it likely that the rednecks did think Arbery matched the description of a previously reported 'suspicious person' though. Makes more sense than randomly attacking joggers. Still not justified by a long shot, but a little different than being on a 'white road'.

Really want to know who was filming and why. Jumping in the car and running video indicates there was a previous interaction with enough time passed to do that. Friend of the hillbillies that knew what was coming? Bystander who witnessed some previous exchange?

 

[JoeMorgue]

It's gonna be the "LOL I went into the wrong apartment, oopsie daisy then I feared for my life" argument again.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

Yeah, that's pretty much how I see it too. I think it likely that the rednecks did think Arbery matched the description of a previously reported 'suspicious person' though. Makes more sense than randomly attacking joggers. Still not justified by a long shot, but a little different than being on a 'white road'.

Really want to know who was filming and why. Jumping in the car and running video indicates there was a previous interaction with enough time passed to do that. Friend of the hillbillies that knew what was coming? Bystander who witnessed some previous exchange?

My comment about "white road" comes from a quote from the 911 call.

The dispatcher asked what Arbery was doing to be warrant apprehension, and the response was

"He's a black guy running down our road".

This guy was a former cop, he has enough sense to write up the report so that it has some veneer of legitimacy. I have a feeling that once we scratch the surface, much more nefarious motives will be revealed.