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Joe Biden didn't run because he expected a negative campaign by Hillary

Also, "he expected a negative campaign"?

You mean like always happens in every race for the presidency?

Of course there would be a negative campaign against him, but that's not something unique to Hillary or her supporters, it's what all candidates do to some degree. Of course there would be opposition research, and of course the press would have taken a much harder look at him if he had ran than if he stayed on the sidelines. That's just how election campaigns are these days.

BTW, did Biden himself actually say that he "knew he could beat Hillary Clinton" or is that the reporter putting words in his mouth?
 
The Big Dog said:
that is what the linked article says.

Do you have a basis to contradict it?
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First of all, I don't need any basis, it's up to the person who makes the claim to provide evidence.

What I do know is that there's no way he could "know" that. He might have thought it, but in all likelihood he would have been mistaken. Nobody knows how it would have played out, but at no point did he ever have a lead over her in the polls:

http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/pollster/2016-national-democratic-primary

https://www.washingtonpost.com/page...uestion_15951.xml?uuid=N_SyamOFEeWEdXgcyYUWUg

Finally, I'm wondering whether Joe Biden actually said that or if the reporter put words in his mouth, because I don't see a direct quote in quotation marks. That makes me wonder what he actually said.
 
Puppycow said:
First of all, I don't need any basis, it's up to the person who makes the claim to provide evidence.

What I do know is that there's no way he could "know" that. He might have thought it, but in all likelihood he would have been mistaken. Nobody knows how it would have played out, but at no point did he ever have a lead over her in the polls:

http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/pollster/2016-national-democratic-primary

https://www.washingtonpost.com/page...uestion_15951.xml?uuid=N_SyamOFEeWEdXgcyYUWUg

Finally, I'm wondering whether Joe Biden actually said that or if the reporter put words in his mouth, because I don't see a direct quote in quotation marks. That makes me wonder what he actually said.
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That is some next level pedantry. I think most people’s actual take away here is that he thought that Hillary and her supporters were going to attack and exploit the tragedy in his family.

Care to comment about that, or just going to quibble about terms.
 
The Big Dog said:
That is some next level pedantry. I think most people’s actual take away here is that he thought that Hillary and her supporters were going to attack and exploit the tragedy in his family.

Care to comment about that, or just going to quibble about terms.
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No, these are just his thoughts and fears about hypothetical attacks, not actual facts. Nothing there specifically about "exploiting the tragedy in his family". That would be political malpractice anyway, it would backfire and I don't think they're that stupid. I mean, how would an opponent exploit the death of a candidate's son for political advantage? If anything that would gain them sympathy votes and lose votes for the candidate doing the attacking.

Compared to the primary on the Republican side, the Democratic one seemed positively genteel and polite by comparison. Some polite criticisms were made back and forth between Bernie and Hillary, but I don't recall any schoolyard insults or anything overly personal.
 
I think Joe didn't run for two reasons:

1. His heart wasn't in it as he was still dealing with the death of his son.

2. He knew that many Democrats wanted Hillary to be the first female President and the idea of Bill back in the White House in any role was VERY exciting.
 
Removed response to derail
Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: TubbaBlubba


If Biden actually said that (I think his words from various points in the book have likely been interpreted to coming to that), what part is there to disagree with.

The preliminary campaign was in full tilt when his son finally succumbed (it's the same type of cancer McCain has, I read recently) in the spring of '15. He knows the Clintons and that there would be a rough-and-tumble fight. He's said in the book and in at least one interview recently that he and Hillary committed that if he did run they weren't going to run negative campaigns, but then closes that with a political disclaimer,... but your and my supporters can get a little rough at times.

Biden's faced nasty campaigns. The guy who said he'd like to beat Trump's ass is going to back away from a political fight? Or the grieving father was saying that it might not be the kind of thing he wanted to add to his plate at that moment.

Let's wait a day or two and see what Biden says. He's doing the book tour thing and if he actually meant it in the way it's being re-interpreted* he'll say so.

*The spin, of course, is that smiling lovable Joe was a-skeered of the big bad bullies because Hillary's such an unrepentant evil-doer that no sane person would run against her.
 
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Foolmewunz said:
He's said in the book and in at least one interview recently that he and Hillary committed that if he did run they weren't going to run negative campaigns, but then closes that with a political disclaimer,... but your and my supporters can get a little rough at times.
.
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Hmmm, you seem to be saying that Biden also thought his own supporters could be expected to get dirty, i.e. it's 50/50 blame... but the quote I've seen is:

“But if I ran, I told her, I would not run a negative campaign. She said the same,” he writes, in excerpts published by Mail Online, but then she added: “Although some of our supporters can get out of hand sometimes, it would not be me.”

... which is 100% Hillary, especially when followed by "“And Clinton backers sent the signal that they would not stop at voting records and policies if I did get in the race,” he writes.".
 
Giz said:
Hmmm, you seem to be saying that Biden also thought his own supporters could be expected to get dirty, i.e. it's 50/50 blame... but the quote I've seen is:

“But if I ran, I told her, I would not run a negative campaign. She said the same,” he writes, in excerpts published by Mail Online, but then she added: “Although some of our supporters can get out of hand sometimes, it would not be me.”

... which is 100% Hillary, especially when followed by "“And Clinton backers sent the signal that they would not stop at voting records and policies if I did get in the race,” he writes.".
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I'm willing to concede that if it's important but I fail to see that it is.

And it should be noted that he quotes her as saying "our supporters" and then doesn't point out that no, his supporters would never do such a thing. He owns the page and could've denied that on his supporters' behalf.

He's a grown up. He's a politician. He survived the plagiarism scandal, he survived the foot-in-mouth-disease reputation, he is a doyenne of the party known for tough in-fighting.

I'm not disputing that he may have had the thoughts in his head; I'm disputing that Joe Biden would run from a fight because he was afraid of the Billary machine. It may have been one of many thoughts running through his head. The news-consuming public likes stupid one line answers. There can't be myriad reasons for Hillary losing (or Trump winning). You can only pick one: Russian Interference, Comey's Double-Fakeout, Voter Suppression, Bad Dem Campaign.
 
Puppycow said:
Also, "he expected a negative campaign"?

You mean like always happens in every race for the presidency?

Of course there would be a negative campaign against him, but that's not something unique to Hillary or her supporters, it's what all candidates do to some degree. Of course there would be opposition research, and of course the press would have taken a much harder look at him if he had ran than if he stayed on the sidelines. That's just how election campaigns are these days.
Click to expand...

One of these things is not like the others. TBD's problem is as obvious as his avatar.
 
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