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Is this woo?

St.Michael

Scholar
Joined
Sep 16, 2006
Messages
117
I keep seeing many advertisements from Holistic and Alternative therapists offering “Lymph Drainage”.

I’ve looked on Wikipedia and Google but there doesn’t seem to be too much information on offer and the websites I am reading are usually alternative therapy centers.

[FONT=&quot]Can anyone shed any light on the matter?

It was this link that made me suspicious:
Bowen Therapy originated in Australia in the 1950’s. It was developed by a man named Tom Bowen who had no medical training but treated people who had musculoskeletal injuries. His technique was to move his thumbs and fingers across various tendons and muscles, applying very gentle pressure. The rolling movement altered the tension in the muscle creating an impulse of energy. He was so successful that he eventually gave up his job in a factory and opened a full time clinic.
http://www.thebowentechnique.com/content/lymphoedema.htm
[/FONT]
 
Nothing to do with the wooishness of the quote you provided, but...

Why do people have such a hard time with years and the apostrophe?:confused:

It happened in the 1950s.
I enjoy 1950's music.
It happened in the '50s.
I enjoy '50's music.

Sorry for the digressive rant.:o
 
I keep seeing many advertisements from Holistic and Alternative therapists offering “Lymph Drainage”.

I’ve looked on Wikipedia and Google but there doesn’t seem to be too much information on offer and the websites I am reading are usually alternative therapy centers.
Google is totally unfiltered, and Wiki is totally controlled by quacks. www.quackwatch.org (cited above) is the first source for medical quackery. www.skepdic.com is another good source; you can find other reliable sources via those two.
 
I keep seeing many advertisements from Holistic and Alternative therapists offering “Lymph Drainage”.

Can anyone shed any light on the matter?

Movement of lymphatic fluid is one of the benefits of Swedish massage, or any similar massage of muscle and soft tissue. This involves squeezing and pressing in the direction of the heart. By nature, movement of lymphatic fluid is a one way affair, causing "drainage" in the sense that lymphatic fluid drains into glands and eventually into the bloodstream. This is a natural event that occurs in all healthy people. Swedish Massage is beneficial for patients who can not exercise due to injury or illness. It is a legitimate claim from a Massage Therapist, or related therapist who uses massage.

It is not woo, if it a claim related to massage therapy.
 
Nothing to do with the wooishness of the quote you provided, but...

Why do people have such a hard time with years and the apostrophe?:confused:

It happened in the 1950s.
I enjoy 1950's music.
It happened in the '50s.
I enjoy '50's music.

Sorry for the digressive rant.:o

Because everybody pretty much knows what you mean regardless of how you type it.
 
Wiki may not be 'totally controlled by quacks' but it is readily accessible to them.
 
.... Wiki is totally controlled by quacks. ....
Say that within earshot of Geni, stand back and take cover.

Robinson is right; in the right circumstances competent massage by someone who knows what they're doing can be very helpful. However, what is described in the OP sounds a bit quacky to me - just because they use a term which may describe something not-quacky, doesn't mean what they're selling isn't quacking like a duck. (For comparison, "subluxation" is a perfectly legitimate orthopaedic term - which doesn't make chiropractic valid.)

Rolfe.
 
Nothing to do with the wooishness of the quote you provided, but...

Why do people have such a hard time with years and the apostrophe?:confused:

It happened in the 1950s.
I enjoy 1950's music.
It happened in the '50s.
I enjoy '50's music.

Sorry for the digressive rant.:o
The use of the apostrophe for plurals of numerical terms and initial abbreviations (like MP's) was considered correct until relatively recently - it was certainly sanctioned by the extremely pukka grammar book we used at school. Nowadays you're quite right, the apostrophe is regarded as incorrect in the plural and only correct in the possessive, but some writers still haven't got with the programme.

Rolfe.
 
Nonsense. Please provide evidence to back up such a ridiculous claim, or retract it.

Probably just hyperbole. A better description is "Wikipedia entries on quack subjects reflect the quack views more than legitemate medical opinions."

This is because the appropriate experts are not glued to their keyboards the way quack advocates seem to be. Unlike the sellers of quackery, quackbusters have no budget or staff to maintain entries on their products.

An example is Dr. Stephen Barrett's page. It was created with slanderous content, and when he attempted to correct it in good faith, it was quickly reverted to the slanderous versions (sometimes within minutes). It became obvious that the primary editor is the public relations firm of a person with whom he is currently engaged in a lawsuit. The subject has now been locked, but unfortunately, is frozen in a version that contains falsehoods.

This is typical of the skeptical experience: the decision to get a life and abandon Wikipedia to the obsessed woos.

The bottom line: Wikipedia is the last place to get unbiased information about quack remedies.
 
It is a legitimate claim from a Massage Therapist, or related therapist who uses massage.

It is not woo, if it a claim related to massage therapy.

It is a 'legally' legitemate claim for Massage, but it is not a 'scientifically' legitemate claim.

Specifically, the claim of "Enhanced lymph flow" as a benfit of MT is undemonstrated.

If a person specifically has a palpable edema, lymph drainage is indicated, but this should not be done via MT. They are unqualified in the US and Canada, and this would be practicing medicine without a license.



MT is a profession that has been heavily, heavily infiltrated by woo.

David Lowe is making efforts in the US to reverse this trend. He was denied licensure because he refused to sign the statement required by his state board, wherin he had to agree that massage worked by manipulating body energy. He believes that in most US states, MT is essentially a religion that is getting unconstitutional state enforcement.

He recently forwarded this link to our discussion group, which is relevant because it's the first MT exam that eliminates woo. Unfortunately, the MT still has to pass additional state licensure exams, which mandate adherence to eastern mythology.



Lowe's concern is this:

The "eastern bodywork traditions" are the big stickler here. People (including Christians and Jews, often a target of derision in Massage, along with practitioners of "secular science") were having their beliefs "corrected" with the 'science and law' of what were essentially New Age beliefs. The anger was unbelievable, including among New Agers who were told the State now would decide what "spiritual science" was true and what didn't make the grade.



The new, truly science-based, test came out with much fanfare, and now is not legal in the above states. While many of the complainants are "alternative," the few remaining skeptics out there are incensed as well. So are the liberal Christians who backed this new test, who are slowly realizing just how involved the Religious Right has become in backing a test seen as forcibly 'integrating' religious beliefs into scientific theory under the power of law.



Oriental medicine may be (or not be) many things, but one thing it can be effectively argued is that it is faith-based. So faith-based 'correction' of science now has a legal precedent, thanks to the test that is law in New Hampshire.



So you have the strange situation where some Fundamentalist Christians and Intelligent Design groups are working behind the scenes to protect this test and keep it in law, yet the very New Age that this test is said to serve hates it. Given the arrogance of the AMTA , who brought this test to states and used threats of delicencing "biased" therapists, not "open-minded" enough to accept the new 'facts' of Quantum Science and our "Spiritual" reality, there is a lot of frustration built up over this.



At least this will be played out in a political setting and not, as I feared, in a hospital setting. With Energy Work moving in that direction, I was afraid this mess would explode there.



Instead, New Hampshire will get to experience what happens when "Alternative Medicine" becomes "integrated" into a profession. Watch well, because this could be happening in your hospital someday.
 
Apropos:

Sacramento Bee: Jumble of rules rubs the wrong way - Bill calls for a nonprofit entity to certify state massage therapists who meet qualifications.

Excerpt:
Colburn said that, if this bill passes, it is likely that California will some day follow the lead of 38 other states and the District of Columbia by regulating massage therapists with a government board.

ie: in at least a dozen states, including California, anybody can be a "massage therapist".
 
Lymph flows constantly throughout the body. Massage likely has nothing more than a negligible and transient effect. If lymph stops flowing, you rapidly develop a constellation of problems.

-Dr. Imago
 

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