Is the challenge test the final word?

[pjh]

I was watching the BBC Horizon homeopathy documentary again, and was wondering, if the results had lined up for homeopathy - would it be all over? Would Randi have paid out?

Put another way, is the $1,000,000 challenge a bet that Randi cannot be tricked? If you succeed in tricking him or a JREF appointed expert, is that the final word?

For a million, let's say that someone had intercepted the test results and doctored them (people have done worse for less). Let's say that Randi and JREF are fairly sure they've been tricked - but is it now within the spirit of the challenge to pay up?

If JREF have an opportunity to fight the results of a test then they will forever be open to the 'You'll never pay' accusation. Putting up a million for proof of paranormal seems to be a winning bet, betting a million that noone can trick me seems to be a little riskier.

 

[Bandersnatch]

No, he wouldn't of. Simple reason: It was in no way sanctioned by the JREF. If the Applicant mailed the JREF, and an agreement was met with the BBC, and he passes it (plus the re-demonstration), he wins the million.

 

[Ashles]

No, he wouldn't of. Simple reason: It was in no way sanctioned by the JREF. If the Applicant mailed the JREF, and an agreement was met with the BBC, and he passes it (plus the re-demonstration), he wins the million.

He would have paid out:

From the Horizon transcript:

NARRATOR (NEIL PEARSON): This week Horizon is doing something completely different. For the first time we are conducting our own experiment. We are testing a form of medicine which could transform the world. Should the results be positive this man will have to give us $1m.

JAMES RANDI (Paranormal Investigator): Do the test, prove that it works and win a million dollars.

NARRATOR: Proving the memory of water would certainly qualify for the million dollars. To win the prize someone would simply have to repeat Ennis's experiments under controlled conditions, yet no-one has applied.

JAMES RANDI: Where are the homeopathic labs, the biological labs around the world, who say that this is the real thing who would want to make a million dollars and aren't doing it?

NARRATOR: So Horizon decided to take up Randi's challenge. We gathered experts from some of Britain's leading scientific institutions to help us repeat Ennis's experiments. Under the most rigorous of conditions they'll see whether they can find any evidence for the memory of water. We brought James Randi over from the United States to witness the experiment and we came to the world's most august scientific institution, the Royal Society. The Vice-President of the Society, Professor John Enderby, agreed to oversee the experiment for us.

PROF. JOHN ENDERBY: ...but they'll, of course as far as the experimenters are concerned they'll have totally different numbers...

NARRATOR: And with a million dollars at stake James Randi wants to make sure there's no room for error.

JAMES RANDI: ...keeping the original samples, so I'm very happy with that provision. I'm willing to accept a positive result for homeopathy or for astrology or for anything else. I may not like it, but I have to be willing to accept it.

NARRATOR: Then there's the small matter of the million dollars.

JOHN ENDERBY: James, is the cheque in your pocket ready now?

JAMES RANDI: We don't actually carry a cheque around. It's in the form of negotiable bonds which will be immediately sep, separated from our account and given to whoever should win the prize.

NARRATOR: We asked the firm to fax us confirmation that the million dollar prize is there.

 

[Ashles]

I was watching the BBC Horizon homeopathy documentary again, and was wondering, if the results had lined up for homeopathy - would it be all over? Would Randi have paid out?

Put another way, is the $1,000,000 challenge a bet that Randi cannot be tricked? If you succeed in tricking him or a JREF appointed expert, is that the final word?

For a million, let's say that someone had intercepted the test results and doctored them (people have done worse for less). Let's say that Randi and JREF are fairly sure they've been tricked - but is it now within the spirit of the challenge to pay up?

If JREF have an opportunity to fight the results of a test then they will forever be open to the 'You'll never pay' accusation. Putting up a million for proof of paranormal seems to be a winning bet, betting a million that noone can trick me seems to be a little riskier.

Kramer has stated that even if the JREF is tricked and the claimant later reveals they used trickery the money is still paid out.

So you absolutely are allowed to win by trickery.

 

[pjh]

No, he wouldn't of. Simple reason: It was in no way sanctioned by the JREF. If the Applicant mailed the JREF, and an agreement was met with the BBC, and he passes it (plus the re-demonstration), he wins the million.

I'm sorry, but Randi was there! AFAIK it was an official test. That is only an example anyway.

 

[jmercer]

I assume that the results were negative?

 

[pjh]

Yes the results were negative!

I'm amazed that no other TV producers/programs have tried to use the $1,000,000 to make other TV shows.

 

[CFLarsen]

Yes the results were negative!

I'm amazed that no other TV producers/programs have tried to use the $1,000,000 to make other TV shows.

They have. E.g., in Denmark, a couple of years ago.

An astrologer was tested. He failed.

Three dowsers were tested. All three failed.

One astrologer refused to be tested for this reason:

Astrologer: "When astrologers have been tested before, it has always gone wrong".

Interviewer: "For whom?"

Astrologer: "For the astrologers".

Another astrologer, Karen Boesen, also refused to be tested, after it was revealed that she had deemed a murderer the best candidate for a top job in a company.

 

[Bandersnatch]

No, he wouldn't of. Simple reason: It was in no way sanctioned by the JREF. If the Applicant mailed the JREF, and an agreement was met with the BBC, and he passes it (plus the re-demonstration), he wins the million.
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I'm sorry, but Randi was there! AFAIK it was an official test. That is only an example anyway.

Note to self: Upgrade from basic cable.

My bad.

 

[Beleth]

I'm sorry, but Randi was there! AFAIK it was an official test.

Randi's presence is neither a requirement nor is it sufficient to make a test official. The presence of a mutually-agreed-upon protocol is far more of a requirement.