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Is GM finished?

Just thinking

Philosopher
Just thinking
Joined
Jul 18, 2004
Messages
5,169
General motors stock falls 30% ... in 1 day!

If that isn't bad enough, the price is below $5.00 --- it was in the 1950's when it was last this low. So, does this spell the end for GM? Can it survive? Confidence in this huge employer just doesn't seem to think so.

(Note ... can someone please correct the spelling on the tag? Thank you.)
 
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GM will not disappear.

That does not mean they will ever be what they were, but they are not going to go away.

Many, many assets. They lose money in the US but the overseas operations are not in that bad of shape.
 
Back-Pocket Prognostication: General Motors will become to a foreign auto maker what GM's brand names (Chevy, Buick, Pontiac, GMC, Saturn, Hummer, Saab, and Cadillac) are to GM right now.

Of course, your results may vary...
 
Fnord said:
Back-Pocket Prognostication: General Motors will become to a foreign auto maker what GM's brand names (Chevy, Buick, Pontiac, GMC, Saturn, Hummer, Saab, and Cadillac) are to GM right now.

Of course, your results may vary...
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Exceedingly unlikely.
 
You know, perhaps GM dying as GM might not be a bad thing. If GM were to break apart, and the individual divisions form up as independent companies, perhaps those outfits might actually BUILD DECENT F***ING CARS.

It used to be that GM actually built cars that would hold together. Now, they have so many recall notices, it's almost not worth buying one. If you want a car that's reliable, you buy foreign. You buy Mercedes, Toyota, Nissan, hell, even a damned Kia holds up better than anything GM builds today. Why would you buy American when it's overpriced, shoddily built, and loses more value than anything else on the road?

If I want to buy American, I'll buy a Kenworth or Pete. At least those don't fall apart, and they'll hold their value better. Of course, they're Class 8 trucks, (big rigs), but no one ever said life was fair.
 
At least one GM division makes good cars: Holden.

And I say that as a Ford man, so I have no love for Holden.
 
Roadtoad said:
You know, perhaps GM dying as GM might not be a bad thing. If GM were to break apart, and the individual divisions form up as independent companies, perhaps those outfits might actually BUILD DECENT F***ING CARS.
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Isn't that how it used to be? Cadillac ... Chevrolet ... Buick ... etc?

It used to be that GM actually built cars that would hold together. Now, they have so many recall notices, it's almost not worth buying one. If you want a car that's reliable, you buy foreign. You buy Mercedes, Toyota, Nissan, hell, even a damned Kia holds up better than anything GM builds today. Why would you buy American when it's overpriced, shoddily built, and loses more value than anything else on the road?

If I want to buy American, I'll buy a Kenworth or Pete. At least those don't fall apart, and they'll hold their value better. Of course, they're Class 8 trucks, (big rigs), but no one ever said life was fair.
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And you get choice of engine manufacturer as well.
 
You know, the kicker to all of this is that with the Fiat debacle, complete with the discovery that Gianni Agnelli had withheld the crown jewels, Ferrari and Maserati, not to mention that stupid put clause within the contract, you would have thought that GM would have learned. They would have at least attempted to do something about how they run the business, rather than continuing to pay out such god damned outrageous salary bonuses.

Instead, even as the company was sliding into mediocrity and beyond, Jack Smith allowed things to deteriorate. Hell, why would you continue to pay money to Lloyd Reuss, (Mr. "The Market Will Save Us"), one of the most incompetent CEOs ever, or Robert Stempel who never managed to get the board behind him? You'd think even Roger Smith would have some shame about how he ran GM, but he doesn't. He's actually PROUD of the fact he lost money!

GM, if it's going to survive, it doesn't need a transfusion of cash. It needs a transfusion of BRAINS.
 
GM expanded their market share significantly in the US last quarter. They're #1 overall in sales with 30% of the market. Their stock fell in the toilet due to their credit getting downgraded. They are currently making very good, reliable vehicles compared to most of their competition, Toyota and Honda nonwithstanding. I talk to dealers of all makes as part of my job. GM dealers? Complaining about no one needing service anymore.

And I drive a Ford.
 
In My Spare Time said:
GM expanded their market share significantly in the US last quarter. They're #1 overall in sales with 30% of the market. Their stock fell in the toilet due to their credit getting downgraded. They are currently making very good, reliable vehicles compared to most of their competition, Toyota and Honda nonwithstanding. I talk to dealers of all makes as part of my job. GM dealers? Complaining about no one needing service anymore.

And I drive a Ford.
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What kind?
 
And I thought this thread was about GM (genetically modified) food, which is attracting debate here.

I don't think they are gone and I would buy shares in them if I could afford it. GM (Holden) launched their electric car in Australia yesterday. Ironic because it is obstensibly about concern for the environment, and the cars plug into the outlet producing electricity from coal-fired power stations.

And I drive a Ford.
 
lionking said:
. Ironic because it is obstensibly about concern for the environment, and the cars plug into the outlet producing electricity from coal-fired power stations.

And I drive a Ford.
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I think one coal power station powering X electric cars is more energy efficient than the same X being powered by X combustion engines (which loose most of the energy in heat)


In Europe we know GM mostly from Opel (called Vauxhall in the UK) and Saab. Opel make decent cars, since decades they are (among) the best selling cars in Holland and Germany. It's considered a German car maker, so it gets the advantage of the solid reputation German car makers have.

Saab is marginal, they haven't made any new car in ages and basically their product is based on a 25 year old design (9-5) or it's an Opel Vectra with different looks (9-3)

They only sell (a small amount of cars) based on their image. Basically it means that a small amount of the luxury business car owners wants to feel different, so they buy a Saab instead of a Merc, Audi or BMW.

GM doesn't sell other stuff in Europe in any significant numbers (market share of chevrolet etc is not more than 1% and that's because they sell korean daewoo's)
 
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In My Spare Time said:
GM expanded their market share significantly in the US last quarter. They're #1 overall in sales with 30% of the market. Their stock fell in the toilet due to their credit getting downgraded. They are currently making very good, reliable vehicles compared to most of their competition, Toyota and Honda nonwithstanding. I talk to dealers of all makes as part of my job. GM dealers? Complaining about no one needing service anymore.

And I drive a Ford.
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GM has been selling vehicles below cost and with instant rebates for years now just to maintain their market share. Their current inventory is at record levels, their debt is at record levels, and their costs are at records levels.

And, if they haven't had the guts to declare bankruptcy and squash the unions by now, they never will.

Nor is the 20 billion bailout going their way from the US Government going to save them for very long.

Wave good-bye to GM.
 
balrog666 said:
GM has been selling vehicles below cost and with instant rebates for years now just to maintain their market share. Their current inventory is at record levels, their debt is at record levels, and their costs are at records levels.

And, if they haven't had the guts to declare bankruptcy and squash the unions by now, they never will.

Nor is the 20 billion bailout going their way from the US Government going to save them for very long.

Wave good-bye to GM.
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I'm tempted to agree with you, but it's difficult to imagine politicians standing by whilst GM collapses. Politicians want to get re-elected, there are GM employees and subcontractors all around the country, and GM is highly visible (and many people have a strange idea that manufactured goods are the only production that counts, services are imaginary, &c &c). It's perfect protectionist-bait.

If GM starts to take on water, there will be plenty of politicians volunteering to bail it out, or even volunteering to lower the level of the entire ocean just to suit one vessel. ;)

Concerning the recent handout: http://www.economist.com/business/displaystory.cfm?story_id=12341970
Plenty of taxpayer money is available to support specific manufacturers if, err, taxpayers prefer somebody else's products, and this latest handout involved very little fuss - so further handouts are not so unlikely. Of course, in this case there would have been outrage if handouts went explicitly to "american" carmakers, so the package was carefully tuned so that it would suit American carmakers without saying so very loudly.

Maybe next time politicians will say "Oh, we're not being protectionist at all, our support package is available to any carmaker with the initials G and M..." :D

(I apologise in advance for any flaws in this post, it's been lubricated by Liebfraumilch)
 
The problem with those GM bailouts is that if the US Government just paid the workers to twiddle their thumbs at the local tavern instead of making more crap to stack up in a warehouse, it would actually be cheaper for us and better for them.
 
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