Is "Faith" dangerous?

[tommjames]

Is 'faith' dangerous? Is it as some say, a 'brain virus'? Does faith cause more problems than it 'solves'?? Is it dangerous to believe something for which you have no empirical evidence, relying instead on a pastiche of quasi-philosophical pontifications??

My questions are not rhetorical, and I would appreciate your sincere views.

 

[Upchurch]

Is 'faith' dangerous?

Pragmatically, I'd say faith is mostly harmless. It only really gets dangerous when people rely on faith rather than good judgement, like praying instead of going to a doctor when sick.

 

[tommjames]

Re: Re: Is "Faith" dangerous?

Pragmatically, I'd say faith is mostly harmless. It only really gets dangerous when people rely on faith rather than good judgement, like praying instead of going to a doctor when sick.

But what about, say, when a muslim decides he would like to perform a suicide bombing, driven by his faith that he will be rewarded in heaven by 72 vestal virgins?

 

[Upchurch]

Re: Re: Re: Is "Faith" dangerous?

But what about, say, when a muslim decides he would like to perform a suicide bombing, driven by his faith that he will be rewarded in heaven by 72 vestal virgins?

See, I would call that relying on faith rather than good judgement.

 

[tommjames]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Is "Faith" dangerous?

See, I would call that relying on faith rather than good judgement.

Erm, but relying on faith is the whole point I'm getting at. The whole point of faith is that you rely on it rather than judgement, be it good judgement or any other.

Perhaps I should clarify my question...

Is a reliance on 'faith' as opposed to personal judgement dangerous? Is it as some say, a 'brain virus'? Does faith cause more problems than it 'solves'?? Is it dangerous to believe something for which you have no empirical evidence, relying instead on a pastiche of quasi-philosophical pontifications??

 

[Marc]

Faith is like wandering around blindfolded in a trap filled maze. Maybe nothing bad will happen by following it, maybe tragedy will strike, but it is plunging ahead without reason. It will not help you avoid the traps or find the exit.

 

[Upchurch]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Is "Faith" dangerous?

Is a reliance on 'faith' as opposed to personal judgement dangerous?

Oh, well, if you put it that way, then yes.

Is it as some say, a 'brain virus'? Does faith cause more problems than it 'solves'?? Is it dangerous to believe something for which you have no empirical evidence, relying instead on a pastiche of quasi-philosophical pontifications??

Does faith cause more problems than it solves? That's hard to say. Depends on the context you put it in, I suppose.

If you were to ask, do organized religions cause more problems than they solve, I'd have to say no. For every suicide cult or fundamentalist extremists, there are probably a hundred churches out there that actually help the poor and the sick, that bring comfort and community to their members, and that genuinely try to practice the morality that they preach. I have the feeling that if religious wackos didn't have religion, they'd just be some other kind of wacko.

 

[T'ai Chi]

Faith is like wandering around blindfolded in a trap filled maze.

No, it is not, as that is a metaphor of your choosing, probably somewhat biased to reflect the fact that you believe faith is dangerous, as I could easily say that faith is like walking in a peaceful open meadow with blue skies and fresh air, and enjoying the scenery and not looking where you are going so sometimes you walk in circles.

I think faith can be dangerous, and that it all depends on what you believe in, but mostly how you believe in it. I think if someone believes in homeopathy, somewhat of a big deal. But it is more important if they are fundamental in their belief, or if they still have an open mind about them.

 

[Eos of the Eons]

I just think of all the fighting over Israel **shudders**

 

[evildave]

One may as well ask if electricity is dangerous: Normally it's just a useful tool, but in the hands of lunatics and morons, YES, it's dangerous.

Is lightning dangerous? If you take simple precautions, it's just pretty lights and noise. If you run around with a metal pole in the rain on top of a mountain....

 

[Yahweh]

What good is faith?

Some might argue faith can give comfort when tragedy strikes, but comfort can come from anywhere. The faithless are no out in the cold as others would have you believe when it comes to tragic episodes that are bound to occur in life.

For all the churches who help the poor and feed the hungry, that is very nice. Just as many of these organizations would help just as many needy with or without the religious significance.

Having faith is a rather "dumb" reason to rationalize a false view of the reality.

I wouldnt call faith a "brain-virus", that seems a little extreme. It seems more like a brickwall in rationalism that just doesnt need to be there.

Is faith dangerous? There are degrees of danger, it seems faith for the most part isnt dangerous but it just doesnt do any good (and it hurts the critical thinking muscle), it seems like most faith is level 1 or 2 on a danger scale of 1 to 10. (Sometimes you get the extremist... that point has already been brought up in the thread...)

 

[EternalUniverse]

Is 'faith' dangerous? Is it as some say, a 'brain virus'? Does faith cause more problems than it 'solves'?? Is it dangerous to believe something for which you have no empirical evidence, relying instead on a pastiche of quasi-philosophical pontifications??

My questions are not rhetorical, and I would appreciate your sincere views.

What do you all think of this distiction between being rational, having faith, and being delusional?

being rational - believing something because we have good evidence pointing to that belief.

having faith - having a belief that doesn't have strong evidence for or against it.

being delusional - believing something when there is good evidence
against it.


Hmm, I realize that the content of the belief is a huge factor, so if it is possible , assume that we're talking about the same belief. i.e., for a given belief x, you are rational to believe it if there is good evidence in support of it. you are demonstrating faith if x doesn't have evidence either for or against it. finally, you are delusional if you believe x even though x has strong support against it.

 

[Iacchus]

See, I would call that relying on faith rather than good judgement.

But still in the act of exercising our good judgment that requires faith doesn't it? For we don't in fact "know," although we might have a good idea, what the actual outcome is going to be when we act upon it.

So in that sense when we say man is a creature of faith, then that makes a great deal of sense.

 

[Yahweh]

But still in the act of exercising our good judgment that requires faith doesn't it? For we don't in fact "know," although we might have a good idea, what the actual outcome is going to be when we act upon it.

So in that sense when we say man is a creature of faith, then that makes a great deal of sense.

There are 2 types of faith:

1. Blind Faith
2. And Evidenced Faith

The only thing Blind Faith requires is blind belief. Blind Faith can never be used to assert positive belief or disbelief, it is perfectly justifyable for "personal belief". It doesnt mean anything in terms of determining what is "true" or "untrue".

Evidenced Faith requires evidence. When you say "I am going to throw this ball, and it will travel a parabolic path through the air", then you need evidence to back that claim up. You can cite the Laws of Physics as your evidence, or you could perform an experiment, or you could cite examples where this observation in similar conditions has always been correct.

However, when you assert a positive claim that requires evidence, but the Evidenced Faith is contradicted by currently existing evidence, you must reject the faith. Refusing to do so, and that Evidenced Faith becomes labeled with a term called "Willful Ignorance".

Exercising Good judgement is a form of Evidenced Faith, not Blind Faith. If we are creatures of faith, we ought to be creatures of Evidenced Faith.

 

[Iacchus]

Exercising Good judgement is a form of Evidenced Faith, not Blind Faith. If we are creatures of faith, we ought to be creatures of Evidenced Faith.

Yes, if it wasn't "self-evident," then it would be unknowable.

 

[fishbob]

I'd say faith is mostly harmless.

Earth was mostly harmless too. And look what happened when the Vogons got there.

 

[tommjames]

It always amuses me when religious types proclaim that science all comes down to faith, and that fundamentally, science is just another religion like theirs

I see science as what Yahweh called 'Evidenced Faith'. Obviously when we perform scientific experiments and form scientific conclusions we are submitting to faith in some small way (faith that the laws of physics won't just, erm, change etc), but I don't think it's hard to see this is largely irrelevant given that the laws of physics, the universe as we know it, quantum mechanics, spacial relativity etc etc is all we humans have to go on, and all we have ever had. What relevance has faith to our everyday lives?? I'm not talking about the notion of letting, say, faith in Christ guide you through life... I'm talking about when we make our literal everyday decisions,... when we walk, talk, eat, sleep, fill our car up, take the dog for a walk, balance our cheque book etc etc. What use is faith then? None whatsoever I'd say, and I'm going to go out on a limb and suppose most religious people would agree with me on that. Given that faith plays virtually no part in our lives in this context, why do people give faith such credence when it comes to broader issues of religion, morality, world views etc? Where and when does it suddenly cross the line from being simply a dangerous nonsense to some kind of advantageous or righteous way of thinking? Why do so many people build their way of life based on something that plays no part in the SUBSTANCE of what they get up to day in day out?

 

[Iacchus]

If you don't have any faith in "your" being here, then why bother? You see that's the whole point, there's nothing about the human experience which is not "subjective." Except for my statement here of course.

 

[tommjames]

If you don't have any faith in "your" being here, then why bother? You see that's the whole point, there's nothing about the human experience which is not "subjective." Except for my statement here of course.

Indeed. I say the only thing we can truly be sure of is our subjective experience.

One thing though..... so what?

Should we just shut our brains off and do nothing because we can't truly be sure what we are doing or where or what we are? Should we not take a trip to the shop to buy food because we can't truly be sure we are not driving off the edge of a cliff in some absolute reality to which we may or may not be blind?

Our subjective perceptions are all we have. Therefore it makes sense to have 'faith' in them. My point about faith being dangerous though was based inside this subjective universe, where things that have no empircal evidence, within the context of the laws of our subjective experience, are to be beleived blindly.

 

[Iacchus]

Should we just shut our brains off and do nothing because we can't truly be sure what we are doing or where or what we are? Should we not take a trip to the shop to buy food because we can't truly be sure we are not driving off the edge of a cliff in some absolute reality to which we may or may not be blind?

No, that's where the faith comes in. If I knew that the world was going to end tomorrow, why would I bother to get up and go to work in the morning?

Our subjective perceptions are all we have. Therefore it makes sense to have 'faith' in them. My point about faith being dangerous though was based inside this subjective universe, where things that have no empircal evidence, within the context of the laws of our subjective experience, are to be beleived blindly.

But then again, as you say, it's all subjective. Yes, I believe people can be "brainwashed" in the name of religion -- or, anything else for that matter -- it happens all the time. But, does that mean all religion is inherently bad? I wouldn't think so, though I believe much of it is predisposed this way. And do you know why? Because man is a creature of faith.