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Is evolution a fact or theory?

apocalypse

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While watching the classic "Cosmos", Carl Sagan makes the statement "evolution is a fact". Obviously, living creatures can change over time, this is a fact. Don’t drug-resistant bacteria and the silver fox constitute examples of evolution?

What I don't understand is the current Intelligent Design supporters stating that evolution is a theory. Do ID supporters mean that the evolution of man from ape is a theory? Yes, that's true, it's a theory, a very well substantiated theory. Just like the theory of gravity. Of course, ID supporters may want to call it "intelligent falling" as the website "The Onion" did in an article a while back. w w w.theonion.com/content/node/39512

Am I incorrect in believing evolution is a fact, or do I need to re-classify evolution as theory?
 
Species have evolved. That is a fact. We know this to be true because we have seen it. The explanation for how evolution works, that is, the Theory of Evolution, is a theory in the strictest scientific sense of the word.

When IDers say "evolution is just a theory", they are using an Equivocation Fallacy to equate the Theory of Evolution to supposition or conjecture and ignore the mountains of evidence that give it the status of scientific theory.
 
When creationists try the "evolution is just a theory" gambit, just say that evolution is a theory in the same sense that gravity and electricity are theories.

Jeremy
 
While watching the classic "Cosmos", Carl Sagan makes the statement "evolution is a fact". Obviously, living creatures can change over time, this is a fact. Don’t drug-resistant bacteria and the silver fox constitute examples of evolution?

Am I incorrect in believing evolution is a fact, or do I need to re-classify evolution as theory?


As you point out, this is a matter of the definition of the relevant words.

The "fact" of evolution -- that individual species change over time, or alternatively that the gene pool for a species changes over time -- is as incontrovertible as the "fact" that when I just dropped my pencil, it fell to the floor in such-and-such a trajectory.

The "theory" of evolution is a well-tested generalization of the observed facts about evolution that covers things both seen and unseen; we've seen drug-resistant bacteria and silver foxes, and we generalize from them to the origins of human beings from monkey-like protoprimates. In this regard, it's as incontrovertible as the "theory" that when I drop my coffee cup, it will fall to the floor in a trajectory as calculated by Newton's laws of motion, modified if necessary by relativistic corrections and local modifications such as air resistance.

Of course, most people would consider it, loosely speaking, a "fact" that my coffee cup will fall if dropped, even thought it's technically not been observed (otherwise my cup would be broken already) and so is merely a conjecture based on a well-tested set of evidence. No one would seriously entertain the idea that my cup will not fall, merely because no one has yet observed that particular cup falling when dropped at that particular time in that particular place. So the Theory of Evolution is an well-thought-out explanatory framework for the various factual evolution-events that we have observed, along with a lot of secondary evidence that are not actual evolution events.

In this sense, a "theory" is a well-tested explanation of a wide variety of phenomena. As the National Center for Science Education puts it, 'cience teachers, however, use scientific terminology, in which "theory" means a logical, tested, well-supported explanation for a great variety of facts. In a physics class, students will learn that the theory of gravity explains such facts as the rate of acceleration of falling objects; in chemistry class, they learn that atomic theory explains the structure and behavior of elements and compounds;' No one with an ounce more sense than an onion would object to Dalton's "Atomic Theory" or "The Germ Theory of Disease" as "only a theory," and suggest that we bring back the classical four elements, or Galen's humours, as alternatives to be taught in class.

There's also, of course, an informal meaning of the word "theory," akin to "wild-assed guess." As in "Well, my theory of the crime is that the victim shot himself and then his wife hid the suicide note, but that's just a theory and we'll have to wait for the ballistics report to see if that holds up." Evolution is specifically not a "just a theory" in this weak sense.
 
When creationists try the "evolution is just a theory" gambit, just say that evolution is a theory in the same sense that gravity and electricity are theories.

Jeremy

They fail to say that evolution itself is a fact. It's the definition of its processes that's the theory.
 
They fail to say that evolution itself is a fact. It's the definition of its processes that's the theory.

Call them on that, though, and you'll get bogged down in halfwitted ramblings about "microevolution" and how mutations always destroy genetic information -- meaningless stuff that sounds suitably scientific to the average person, and puts evolutionists on the defensive.

Better to come back with a short, accurate refutation of their primary point, and get the ball back in their court quickly.

Jeremy
 
When creationists try the "evolution is just a theory" gambit, just say that evolution is a theory in the same sense that gravity and electricity are theories.

Jeremy
And completely fail to say that Intelligent Design is "just a theory" when they claim that it is a scientific theory, which it isn't.

Geez, this gets confusing...
 
Evolution is a fact, something I've understood and accepted since I was a youngin' and has never come to doubt in my mind.

I guess I'm trying to understand the ID'ers point of view when they refer to the "theory of evolution"? Evolution occurs and is a fact, but the "theory of evolution" is in question. What would their definition of the "theory of evolution" be?

I've come across some nice reads while looking into this, and I thought I post them for all to enjoy.

(sorry for the odd hyperlinks, I can't officially post hyperlinks until I have 15 posts, ughhh)

w w w.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/25/AR2005092501177.html
slate.msn.com/id/2127052/
slate.msn.com/id/2128238/entry/2128240/?nav=tap3
evolution.berkeley.edu/
 
Evolution is a fact; we have observed it. Popular examples include the evolution of a new species of mosquito in the London underground (subway). The Theory of Evolution by Natural Selection is a theory to explain the observed fact of evolution by postulating selection (reproduction before death vs. death before reproduction) due to environmental criteria, like availability of food and ability to obtain it, or ability to avoid predators.
 
While watching the classic "Cosmos", Carl Sagan makes the statement "evolution is a fact". Obviously, living creatures can change over time, this is a fact. Don’t drug-resistant bacteria and the silver fox constitute examples of evolution?

What I don't understand is the current Intelligent Design supporters stating that evolution is a theory. Do ID supporters mean that the evolution of man from ape is a theory? Yes, that's true, it's a theory, a very well substantiated theory. Just like the theory of gravity. Of course, ID supporters may want to call it "intelligent falling" as the website "The Onion" did in an article a while back. w w w.theonion.com/content/node/39512

Am I incorrect in believing evolution is a fact, or do I need to re-classify evolution as theory?

The answer is "yes." There is a fact called "evolution." There is a theory called "evolution." Actually, there are many theories called "evolution." Most of them have not stood the test of evidence.
 
Evolution is a fact; we have observed it. Popular examples include the evolution of a new species of mosquito in the London underground (subway). The Theory of Evolution by Natural Selection is a theory to explain the observed fact of evolution by postulating selection (reproduction before death vs. death before reproduction) due to environmental criteria, like availability of food and ability to obtain it, or ability to avoid predators.

Religious theological scholars are bending a little. They now believe that a mosquito can change to anther type of mosquito. But they don't believe the giraffe and mosquito have a common ancestor. THAT is were the rub still exists.
 
An important thing to remember about science is that any idea can be proven wrong. If there is no way to prove a theory wrong (for example, ID), it's not science. There is always the possibility that scientists are wrong. There are many things that could show our current understanding of evolution is flawed - a fully formed human skeleton inside a T-Rex, for example. But we've never found anything that would lead us to the conclusion that evolution on the whole is wrong.

That being said, evolution happened and happens. We have millions of pieces of evidence for it. But I can't think of anything off the top of my head that qualifies as a 'fact' and not a 'theory' in science. Everything is built on potentially falsifiable theories.
 
As usual, I shall mention Minsky's Theorem of Evolution:
The Process of Evolution is the following abstract idea:

There is a population of things that reproduce, at different rates in different environments. Those rates depend, statistically, on a collection of inheritable traits. Those traits are subject to occasional mutations, some of which are then inherited.

Then one can deduce, from logic alone, without any need for evidence, that:

THEOREM: Each population will tend to increase the proportion of traits that have higher reproduction rates in its current environment.
Unless you can find a problem with the premises, evolution happens.

~~ Paul
 
Evolution is a fact, something I've understood and accepted since I was a youngin' and has never come to doubt in my mind.

I guess I'm trying to understand the ID'ers point of view when they refer to the "theory of evolution"? Evolution occurs and is a fact, but the "theory of evolution" is in question. What would their definition of the "theory of evolution" be?

I've come across some nice reads while looking into this, and I thought I post them for all to enjoy.

(sorry for the odd hyperlinks, I can't officially post hyperlinks until I have 15 posts, ughhh)

w w w.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/25/AR2005092501177.html
slate.msn.com/id/2127052/
slate.msn.com/id/2128238/entry/2128240/?nav=tap3
evolution.berkeley.edu/
The ID'ers use the word "theory" in the way that scientists would use the term "hypothesis", or mathematicians would use the term "conjecture". The scientific term "theory" is not the same as the word "theory" that is used in everyday conversation by the non-scientist members of the general public.
 
Sounds like the most recent argument Behe is doing as witness in the trial, is that ID does not attempt to contradict any part of evolutionary theory. Ie, species can evolve and change, and organisms can evolve but, BUT some particular ones just happened to be designed by intelligence.

Kind of the "not going against anyone, just giving explanation to unknown". The problem often is that when Behe concentrates on the current unknowns, real science has to play catch-up to provide the real answers. And whatever Behe reports sticks like fly tape to public cravices.
 
Sounds like the most recent argument Behe is doing as witness in the trial, is that ID does not attempt to contradict any part of evolutionary theory. Ie, species can evolve and change, and organisms can evolve but, BUT some particular ones just happened to be designed by intelligence.

Kind of the "not going against anyone, just giving explanation to unknown". The problem often is that when Behe concentrates on the current unknowns, real science has to play catch-up to provide the real answers. And whatever Behe reports sticks like fly tape to public cravices.
He's also busy redefining the term "scientific theory." Or at least trying to. And looking pretty silly while he's at it, from what I've read about it so far. See here, for example.
 
An important thing to remember about science is that any idea can be proven wrong. If there is no way to prove a theory wrong (for example, ID), it's not science.
Not strictly true - tautologies can be part of science.
 

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