Upchurch
Papa Funkosophy
I don't think that's a binary yes/no question. For some it is an irrational belief. For others it is a well-thought out position.
In what I would consider a perfect world, people would only become atheists through reason and knowledge, rather than through blind faith.
In what I would consider a perfect world, people would only become atheists through reason and knowledge, rather than through blind faith.
I don't think much of your choices (or even your heading!).
Atheism says there is no evidence of a God so far.
Since there is indeed no evidence, it is a logical position.
One might go further (agnostic?) and say that if God didn't exist, there would probably be many conflicting, unsupported religions. Oh, there are!
"Atheism is the most obvious conclusion of a purely rational discourse on the existence of God."
There aren't many conclusions, are there?:
- there is no evidence of God (atheism)
- there is no God (agnostic)
- I believe in God (no rational reason why)
Atheism says there is no evidence of a God so far.
Since there is indeed no evidence, it is a logical position.
One might go further (agnostic?) and say that if God didn't exist, there would probably be many conflicting, unsupported religions. Oh, there are!
"Atheism is the most obvious conclusion of a purely rational discourse on the existence of God."
There aren't many conclusions, are there?:
- there is no evidence of God (atheism)
- there is no God (agnostic)
- I believe in God (no rational reason why)
Keneke
Muse
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- 980
Is Atheism ALWAYS a belief?
Yeah, I see that some people believe in Atheism regardless of the logic involved. Let me put it this way: Is Atheism always a belief? Which position is the obvious conclusion to rational thought? Do you say Agnosticism is the position of the true skeptic, or Atheism? Please look at the question with that in mind, and answer accordingly. This isn't supposed to be a 10 page thread.
Glee, I believe you have the definitions of Atheist and Agnostics mixed up. Or at least just the Agnostic.
Yeah, I see that some people believe in Atheism regardless of the logic involved. Let me put it this way: Is Atheism always a belief? Which position is the obvious conclusion to rational thought? Do you say Agnosticism is the position of the true skeptic, or Atheism? Please look at the question with that in mind, and answer accordingly. This isn't supposed to be a 10 page thread.
Glee, I believe you have the definitions of Atheist and Agnostics mixed up. Or at least just the Agnostic.
LawnOven
robot
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Athiesm is lack of a belief (soft athiesm).
And saying which is more rational agnostic or athiest doesn't make any sense (to me atleast).
The most rational position is Agnostic Athiest. Untill someone starts defining thier god and you can start testing for it's exsistence and then say "Yes that god exists, or no it does not".
I have to agree with the position taken, as well as with the other atheist/agnostic poll, that it's not a question that can be answered in either/or terms.
People believe or disbelieve things for different reasons. One person may be atheist because they see no evidence to support that there is a god. Another may be because they feel that there is a logical reason why there can be no god or that contradictions in believers lead them to believe there probably is no god and their emotions push them the rest of the way. Someone could be raised atheist and taught "reasons" why there is no god and simply follow what their taught, they may question it and find what they believe is evidence that there IS a god and become a theist. They may be raised a theist and question it and find evidence that contradicts the reasons they were given for believing and conclude there is no god. They may simply be taught and never question it, or question it and find evidence in their own mind to justify it.
Emotions, thoughts and perceptions play a HUGE role in how someone will process "evidence", including how it's presented to them. They may be shown a train of thought that "logically" concludes one thing or another by someone who believes that thing and thought up the "logic" to support it...there may be contradictions that someone who doesn't believe can easily point out...but they're not going to be presented by the person trying to prove their point.
Seperating emotions and desires from evidence and observations is difficult, and some people chose to ignore evidence or emotions in favor of one thing or another, to maintain the desired feeling. If they took the time to evaluate that evidence, they may determine it disproves their belief (in their own mind) or they mind find it disaudes them from it. Most people chose to stick to the feeling they've found comfortable in favor of challenging their beliefs.
Personally, I'm an atheist. I used to believe in god, but I never REALLY believed. I was told there was a god, I had lots of reasons given to me as to why there MUST be a god but in the end after all my soul searching and attempts to connect to that god, whatever it was...I felt that everything I had experienced lead me to believe there was none. That most of the things I felt as "god" were myself, my own emotions, trying to fufill an expectation or desire that I had and I saw the same thing in others. In myself and others of similar belief I saw a desire for a feeling of purpose and acceptance, love, validation. Often a desire for a divine intervention or explanation for tragedy or loss. What started to turn me away from these explanations was the realization that most of them revolved around avoiding the emotion or the acceptance of situations and simply saying "it's god's will" or "well, he works in myseterious ways" or, what made me actually angry at times "maybe it wouldn't have happened if I just loved god more".
Maybe I'm getting too in depth for this subject...but my point is that you have to take into account that you're not dealing with abstract concepts alone, you're dealing with people and people's perceptions and reactions are affected by a multitude of things. Logic is a hard thing to isolate, so while some of us may feel we are atheists because we've taken the time to seperate what we feel is reality from what our emotions and desires for comfort and escape are...there may be others who are in the same place for different reasons that are as flawed as those who take the opposite view.
People believe or disbelieve things for different reasons. One person may be atheist because they see no evidence to support that there is a god. Another may be because they feel that there is a logical reason why there can be no god or that contradictions in believers lead them to believe there probably is no god and their emotions push them the rest of the way. Someone could be raised atheist and taught "reasons" why there is no god and simply follow what their taught, they may question it and find what they believe is evidence that there IS a god and become a theist. They may be raised a theist and question it and find evidence that contradicts the reasons they were given for believing and conclude there is no god. They may simply be taught and never question it, or question it and find evidence in their own mind to justify it.
Emotions, thoughts and perceptions play a HUGE role in how someone will process "evidence", including how it's presented to them. They may be shown a train of thought that "logically" concludes one thing or another by someone who believes that thing and thought up the "logic" to support it...there may be contradictions that someone who doesn't believe can easily point out...but they're not going to be presented by the person trying to prove their point.
Seperating emotions and desires from evidence and observations is difficult, and some people chose to ignore evidence or emotions in favor of one thing or another, to maintain the desired feeling. If they took the time to evaluate that evidence, they may determine it disproves their belief (in their own mind) or they mind find it disaudes them from it. Most people chose to stick to the feeling they've found comfortable in favor of challenging their beliefs.
Personally, I'm an atheist. I used to believe in god, but I never REALLY believed. I was told there was a god, I had lots of reasons given to me as to why there MUST be a god but in the end after all my soul searching and attempts to connect to that god, whatever it was...I felt that everything I had experienced lead me to believe there was none. That most of the things I felt as "god" were myself, my own emotions, trying to fufill an expectation or desire that I had and I saw the same thing in others. In myself and others of similar belief I saw a desire for a feeling of purpose and acceptance, love, validation. Often a desire for a divine intervention or explanation for tragedy or loss. What started to turn me away from these explanations was the realization that most of them revolved around avoiding the emotion or the acceptance of situations and simply saying "it's god's will" or "well, he works in myseterious ways" or, what made me actually angry at times "maybe it wouldn't have happened if I just loved god more".
Maybe I'm getting too in depth for this subject...but my point is that you have to take into account that you're not dealing with abstract concepts alone, you're dealing with people and people's perceptions and reactions are affected by a multitude of things. Logic is a hard thing to isolate, so while some of us may feel we are atheists because we've taken the time to seperate what we feel is reality from what our emotions and desires for comfort and escape are...there may be others who are in the same place for different reasons that are as flawed as those who take the opposite view.
Abdul Alhazred
Philosopher
- Joined
- Sep 4, 2003
- Messages
- 6,023
Keneke said:
A "belief" is not necessarily something irrational as your wording seems to imply. My beliefs are merely those things that I think are true.
Even tautologies such as "this chair is a chair" are beliefs.
However, I voted for atheism.
UnrepentantSinner
A post by Alan Smithee
Sigh, how many times has this been done before...
Abdul Alhazred
Philosopher
- Joined
- Sep 4, 2003
- Messages
- 6,023
Re: Re: Is Atheism a belief?
Not a belief in something, but a belief that God does not exist.
Ratman_tf said:
Not a belief in something, but a belief that God does not exist.