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Is Acupuncture Safe?

rocketdodger

Philosopher
rocketdodger
Joined
Jun 22, 2005
Messages
6,946
I just heard a coworker talking about acupunture with someone else, and it occured to me for the first time that we are talking about sticking needles in the axons of neurons.

Is this safe? I can't think of any reason I would want a metal object inserted into the axon of one of my neurons, given how important neurons are.
 
If the needles are clean, then reasonably safe. What is not safe is your wallet - my partner spent oodles of money on the thing for a period of 2 years. She came to the conclusion that it was doing her no good (really...?), but also managed to somehow lay part of the blame on the lack of success due to my scepticism towards the subject!
 
The question about any treatment must be is it safe and effective. Look at www.quackwatch.org and (probably) www.skepdic.com

Acupuncture has been known to infect people by re-use of contaminated needles, and damage customers by puncturing things (like the heart) that should not be needled. So, one must balance the hazards with the possible benefits. There are no known benefits; therefore, one is put at risk for no reason.
 
Well, I still don't understand why it is "reasonably safe" to pierce the cell wall of a neuron and drive a metal needle through it.

Does the injury just heal up very quickly? Are neurons resilient to such injury? I don't get it.
 
I don't think that acupuncture specifically identifies neurons and targets them. Its just points on the skin. Where did you hear about this sticking needles in nerve cell axons?
 
Professor Yaffle said:
I don't think that acupuncture specifically identifies neurons and targets them. Its just points on the skin. Where did you hear about this sticking needles in nerve cell axons?
Click to expand...

Nowhere -- I thought that is what acupuncture was. I thought the needles were supposed to hit nerves.

That isn't the case?
 
Acupuncture was invented a very long time before nerve cells were even known about. The traditional points were based on "meridians" or energy channels that were hypothesised to exist.

I don't even know how an acupuncturist would possibly identify the exact positions of neurons, and then be accurate enough to hit them.
 
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I remember reading that the "chi" was supposed to be flowing through tubes in the body and thinking, "Oh, well, Western medicine was pretty screwed up at one time, but it got better."
(newt reference)
 
JJM said:
...Acupuncture has been known to infect people by re-use of contaminated needles, and damage customers by puncturing things (like the heart) that should not be needled. So, one must balance the hazards with the possible benefits. There are no known benefits; therefore, one is put at risk for no reason.
Click to expand...

Dr. Crislip had a recent blog post about it (registration required):
http://boards.medscape.com/forums?128@0.2pi4agPVgyL@.29f79bb1!comment=1

If you don't want to bother registering, you can hear him rant about acupuncture in his Quackcast:

Theory of Acupuncture

Acupuncture's Efficacy

Acupuncture update

Acupuncture and Chiropractic

And, of course, you can always read these posts at Science Based Medicine on Acupuncture: http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?cat=8

Another very interesting bit of information is the book Snake Oil Science.
 
As far as I am aware, the axon of a neuron is many times smaller than a needle.

I also am totally baffled why rocketdodger thinks that this is what acupuncture is supposed to do. They're just intramuscular. Sometimes they don't even go far enough in to pierce the fat layer.
 
My sole experience of accupuncture was at the hands of a qualified physiotherapist - who is more into the "trigger point spasm release" model than any theory of meridians.

She did, however , manage to find a nerve in my forearm. It hurt like hell.

She maintains I'm just a wimp, but I've coped with several serious accidents with equanimity. I had a tooth pulled once sans anaesthetic. The pain levels were similar.

The critical question is more likely hygiene than damage though. Disposable, sterile needles are probably safe in themselves , unless stuck somewhere critical, but in the context of MRSA, C difficile etc, any unnecessary deep puncture wound should be avoided.
That's one reason I feel accupuncture in hospitals or clinics must be either prevented or subjected to surgical levels of supervision and sterility, which might make it a lot less appealing to the gullible.
 
Belgian thought said:
If the needles are clean, then reasonably safe. What is not safe is your wallet - my partner spent oodles of money on the thing for a period of 2 years. She came to the conclusion that it was doing her no good (really...?), but also managed to somehow lay part of the blame on the lack of success due to my scepticism towards the subject!
Click to expand...

Curious. I have a dear friend, almost 80, who pulled a tendon while out walking several months back. X has been treating the condition with acupuncture, physiotherapy and osteopathy. No licensed physician has attended this injury, although it has lingered on into winter.
The physiotherapists gives X massage and recommends exercises.
The osteopath 'aligns' X's pelvis.
The acupuncturist stuffs X with needlas and at their last session said X is overdoing the therapy and should give up one of them.
Dropping physiotherapy was her recommendation.
X, after 4 months and the FSM knows how much money spent on 'therapies' has yet to have this injury diagnosed. X limps painfully and still has total faith in the acupuncturist's opinion.
Ideas, anyone?
 
Safe compared to what? If you compare it to doing nothing it's not safe. Compare it to a game of Russian roulette and it's quite safe. Proponents say it's safe if done correctly but that doesn't mean people don't die every year from it. Check out this link for articles on adverse effects form accupuncture.
http://www.veterinarywatch.com/Medline2.htm
 
pakeha said:
Curious. I have a dear friend, almost 80, who pulled a tendon while out walking several months back. X has been treating the condition with acupuncture, physiotherapy and osteopathy. No licensed physician has attended this injury, although it has lingered on into winter.
The physiotherapists gives X massage and recommends exercises.
The osteopath 'aligns' X's pelvis.
The acupuncturist stuffs X with needlas and at their last session said X is overdoing the therapy and should give up one of them.
Dropping physiotherapy was her recommendation.
X, after 4 months and the FSM knows how much money spent on 'therapies' has yet to have this injury diagnosed. X limps painfully and still has total faith in the acupuncturist's opinion.
Ideas, anyone?
Click to expand...

My father is a real athletic guy. Unfortunately, he injured his foot pretty badly and now he limps a bit. I hate to break it to you but even real doctors can't fix everything. That doesn't mean that real doctors don't have a simple solution to alleviate X's injury. They might. It couldn't hurt to go to a doctor and ask.
 
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